How to fix Dragoon. 1 New Feature Required!

[Stanislav]

Give the wyvern abilites.. If the wyvern gets new abilities atleast every 10 levels, maybe abilities that do damage, debuff, stun etc..

Let the Wyvern have manual breaths and let BLMs be able to burst on them.

Wyvern rides Water Breath.
BLM casts Blizzard.

Elements are mixed and the damage of Freeze is done.

To limit the wyvern usage make the Dragoon have MP.

Personally I would be happy with Dragoon if the wyvern had abilites.

[Malefas]

Hm... I'd just like to see either Wheeling Thrust or Impulse Drive do some awesome damage.

Hell, I don't care if Wheeling Thrust did 150-250 damage until the end of time if Impulse Drive could kill a Sabretooth tiger in Batallia Downs 100% of the time. :sweat:

Seriously, Impulse Drive sucks. But then again, besides Asuran Fists and Decimation, almost all of the quested weapon skills are lacking in strength.

But Wheeling Thrust AND Impulse Drive? I demand retribution (not the WS) damnit!

[Rainsford]

You don't even need MP, just give the skills and your good.

It would also be nice if your wyvern would do SOMETHING when you used jumps, too.

[Ayako2]

I don't see why they don't get the abilities of the other Wyvern in the game.

Lvl 10: Deadly Shriek
Lvl 30: Dispel Wing
Lvl 50: Radiant Breath
Lvl 70: Fang Rush

I see nothing wrong with that >.>

[Malefas]

Fang rush...

[Zaptruder]

There's no one way to improve dragoon...

the only reality is that S-E needs to increase the dragoon's dmg dealing ability... however it does it is relatively unimportant.

[Balodoth]

It's all in the Wyvern & WS

DRG is supposedly great at damage over time. Now, I know of another class that seems to lack in damage, but can easily outdamage most classes if done correctly--THF. Now, why does THF do so well? They do less damage per hit than other classes, but. . . Sneak Attack and Trick Attack make for massive amounts of damage when combined with a WS. My proposal is to apply that approach to DRG.

You can leave damage as it is, but DRG should shine when it comes to WS. Three simple changes are needed. 1) Up the damage dealt to make them comparable with other loved WS's. They can be just noticeably lower, but I'll cover why in a moment. 2) Change the elemental alignments of the WS's to make the DRG a SC closer. With comparable damage people will be more accepting of the idea, especially if you impliment. . . 3) Have the Wyvern attack a half second after the SC with the matching element and create a MB--in addition to whatever the BLM does. This would be especially useful if the wyvern could respond to chains ended by other party members.

Now, imagine the consequences of making these changes. As it is, DRK does more damage per attack and per WS than DRG. This would allow DRG to remain a damage over time melee class while giving it its "fifteen minutes of fame." People would be more willing to invite DRG knowing that each swing does less damage, but that when everyone gets their TP up the DRG is going to show them some fireworks. Of course, this is not going to play much of a role until higher levels when SC's and MB's are more practiced and useful. However, it isn't until later levels that DRG becomes more expendable in parties.

I sincerely believe a DRG should get a previous small accuracy bonus for him and his wyvern at level 15, as that would go a long ways toward making DRG's worth obvious. And getting pet commands would be awesome, even if you had to quest for them and it wasn't available until level 50+. You wouldn't need special effects to deal damage, just ones to debuff the monster or buff the party: Dispel, Slow, Stun, Haste, Refresh, War Cry (Dragon Roar?). It would be less powerful than the spells/abilities themselves, but would stack. Of course, one thing I'd like to for a wyvern would be the ability for it to copy my weapon's additional effect, more or less doubling the chance for it to go off.

[Weezingpipes]

Stun type additional effect would be nice, or activated stun breath attack that has a longer refresh than the spell (not like 5 minutes longer or whatever, just a bit longer to balance mp free stuns). Breath damage doesn't scale well per level, the damage is barely higher than it was 40 levels ago, and wyvern hp tied to breath efficacy..well its crap already, the extra penalty is stupid.

More accessable lances would be nice 60-70. Like no one is getting Gae Bolg at 68, and Colossal Lance, while the NM isn't hard at all, the drop rate is so rare its quite a chore convincing people to come along time after time. Its at the point where its cheaper and less time consuming to load up on Cermet Lances and finding your resident high level Alchemist to make Ice Lances until they make a HQ one. Armor is weak, Gavial is bullshit. Would be nice if more raid drops were DRG usable..because there is like 3-4 (not including Abjuration sets because those are pretty weak for the job at best).

I'd almost say the job can use another ACC or ATK up trait at some point. What would be interesting for wyverns is if they got weapon skills that you could make skillchains with. While some may consider this overpowered, if the wyvern had its own TP gain seperate from your own, and given self renkei is usually crap, if the wyvern ws were scaled properly, it would add a nice MB opportunity at best, with a bit of additional damage. Also could be better justification to improving DRG's personal weapon skills, because the argument seems to be they are the way they are because of the breath attack with each WS compensates low damage (even though it doesn't, not even close).

Well whatever, this is all pointless wishful thinking.

[Stanislav]

Re: It's all in the Wyvern & WS

Originally posted by Balodoth
DRG is supposedly great at damage over time. Now, I know of another class that seems to lack in damage, but can easily outdamage most classes if done correctly--THF. Now, why does THF do so well? They do less damage per hit than other classes, but. . . Sneak Attack and Trick Attack make for massive amounts of damage when combined with a WS. My proposal is to apply that approach to DRG.

You can leave damage as it is, but DRG should shine when it comes to WS. Three simple changes are needed. 1) Up the damage dealt to make them comparable with other loved WS's. They can be just noticeably lower, but I'll cover why in a moment. 2) Change the elemental alignments of the WS's to make the DRG a SC closer. With comparable damage people will be more accepting of the idea, especially if you impliment. . . 3) Have the Wyvern attack a half second after the SC with the matching element and create a MB--in addition to whatever the BLM does. This would be especially useful if the wyvern could respond to chains ended by other party members.

Now, imagine the consequences of making these changes. As it is, DRK does more damage per attack and per WS than DRG. This would allow DRG to remain a damage over time melee class while giving it its "fifteen minutes of fame." People would be more willing to invite DRG knowing that each swing does less damage, but that when everyone gets their TP up the DRG is going to show them some fireworks. Of course, this is not going to play much of a role until higher levels when SC's and MB's are more practiced and useful. However, it isn't until later levels that DRG becomes more expendable in parties.

I sincerely believe a DRG should get a previous small accuracy bonus for him and his wyvern at level 15, as that would go a long ways toward making DRG's worth obvious. And getting pet commands would be awesome, even if you had to quest for them and it wasn't available until level 50+. You wouldn't need special effects to deal damage, just ones to debuff the monster or buff the party: Dispel, Slow, Stun, Haste, Refresh, War Cry (Dragon Roar?). It would be less powerful than the spells/abilities themselves, but would stack. Of course, one thing I'd like to for a wyvern would be the ability for it to copy my weapon's additional effect, more or less doubling the chance for it to go off.

You should play DRG first.. DRG don't hit weak.. They hit faster and sometimes stronger then a DRK.. The only different is the WS damage after 65+

[Balodoth]

I'll play - You read

Actually, you'll notice in the quote that I specifically mentioned my ideal changes wouldn't come into effect until later in the game. Therefore, whenever DRK, or any other job for that matter, is able to take DRG's spot, this would be something to counteract it. I like the "damage over time" approach. Many times it's a lot smarter approach too, especially when you take into account accuracy.

I'm also very much aware that the difference between DRG & DRK is a growing delta that takes most of the game to become fully pronounced; however, have you considered its effects on the metagame? I know full well that at level 23 with my THF (my current focus job), that I can kill a mob just as fast with a DRK as with a DRG, as with a WAR, as with a PLD. There's really very little difference between the classes at this point. I even get away with playing THF/RDM at this point. Now, when I go into seek party status, a DRK will drop in and disappear nearly as fast as a WHM or BRD--that is if they aren't invited before they seek a party. Meanwhile, I'll watch the poor DRG sit around and wait. "Why?" I ask myself, "is this person waiting so long for a group. Don't people know DRG kills stuff dead?" When you consider the ability to change jobs without changing characters, it all makes sense. Many of these people have had a chance to play to the point where the difference between two melee jobs becomes more obvious. Many of these people go online or to other resources to see what each job has to offer or get people's opinions. When someone goes to make a party in Valkurm, they think that since DRG will eventually suck, DRG must be starting the sucking process now. DRG have a very real problem getting groups at low levels, something I don't have to play through to observe.

The reason that I suggested making DRG WS closers is that it would allow them to make truly devastating attacks while requiring the player to work for that benefit. At lower levels it would work, but what do you think would happen if a wyvern attack did a MB? Not nearly as good as a real one. And not nearly as powerful as it could be since it would usually be level one chains in the first place. Also, I state to make the WS not do as much damage for the simple reason that the wyvern is going to MB off it.

No, I have not played DRG yet. I fully intend on doing so. My comments are based on personal experience playing with and talking to DRG's of many different levels. Now I know the DRK board have their rants as well, but I can honestly say that taking an impartial view of the matters, I've come to the conclusion that DRG really does need something to increase its potency and viability. I also feel this way about THF and SMN. Until the problem is corrected I am more than happy to throw out ideas in the hope that S-E will see mine or someone else's and begin to think of some way for DRG to be more competitive.

Oh, and I feel sorry for the DRK's you know if they need 65+ to be noticeably better than DRG. Tell them to farm or something and get some good armor.

[MAK]

You should play DRG first.. DRG don't hit weak.. They hit faster and sometimes stronger then a DRK.. The only different is the WS damage after 65+

They hit faster only if a DRK is using a scythe and a scythe has a ton more D then a lance, using a Gsword they hit about the same but the DRK ws is strong, they also have more attack+ and can pump their HP into the next few attacks. DRK does a huge amount of DoT already and does more WS dmg then a THF. I like to PT with DRG because if the DRG cant rip hate off the PLD(9/10) ill just fuido him and he jumps it off. To say drg does equal to more dmg then a drk is completely wrong though, they are very far away. Its just the way things are now it could change in a few patches.

[zerohaste]

The main problem with Dragoon is WSs 65+. Lack of being able to create a decent damage Lv3 SC hurts us big. It's given us a insanely bad rep, too. There are lots of people out there that think if you can't throw out a 800+ WS every time your job sucks. People don't pay attention to our melee + wyvern damage. Like Stanislav said, we hit faster than DRK and we're definitely more accurate than they are.

If they just increased the damage modifier on our 65+ WSs we would get a huge boost. I'm not like most other DRGs, I don't expect to throw out some 1400 damage WS.... but being able to throw out a 800ish one would be nice.

One thing I thought that would be neat is if they added the ability from the April Fools joke patch notes (not sure how many have seen it). Basically talked about adding a new ability, Quick Decent. Change our jumps so that they keep us up in the air for a few seconds and we have the option of using QD to do what the Jump would normally do (maybe do something like the faster you hit QD the harder you come down, doing more damage), or we could use a WS, turning that WS into a Jump type WS. The damage increase would be different based on what Jump you used, with Jump being the least and Super Jump increasing it the most.

Then there is the fact that we don't have a very good range of equipment to choose from, but that's not too big a deal right now. Melee damage output is a lot better than most people think. I'd also like our passive abilities to affect our wyvern (meaning our wyvern would get those atk and acc up traits too) but once again I'm not too concerned with minor issues like this. Our 65+ WSs are what needs fixing right now.

[Stanislav]

DRK and DRG can be good friends

Wheeling Thrust > Spinning Slash

[Weezingpipes]

So can WAR (Mistral Axe/Decimation), RNG (Arching Arrow). The fact is DRG ws at high levels sit at great spots for skillchainage...the problem is other jobs can do them much better. Its hard to do proper fuidama as a DRG and reliably turn the monster with a good tank (easy with a shit tank obviously), a lot harder than if you were another job, so many DRG settle for just having the THF/DRK sa/ta/ws off them instead.

Its not that DRG can't do, its just they do it poorly. There is no real niche DRG fits into other than being last picked for kickball basically. Yes DRG hits faster and often is more accurate than other jobs, but what does that extra TP amount to? Jack and shit. Higher TP on Wheeling Thrust and Impulse Drive has questionable at best value...and given the TP nerf, DRG cannot really add extra damage via multi hit ws anymore like they used to, so you build TP faster to wait for the other melee regardless. Thats not much of an advantage.

[Dark Aphalite]

Originally posted by Weezingpipes
So can WAR (Mistral Axe/Decimation), RNG (Arching Arrow). The fact is DRG ws at high levels sit at great spots for skillchainage...the problem is other jobs can do them much better. Its hard to do proper fuidama as a DRG and reliably turn the monster with a good tank (easy with a shit tank obviously), a lot harder than if you were another job, so many DRG settle for just having the THF/DRK sa/ta/ws off them instead.

Its not that DRG can't do, its just they do it poorly. There is no real niche DRG fits into other than being last picked for kickball basically. Yes DRG hits faster and often is more accurate than other jobs, but what does that extra TP amount to? Jack and shit. Higher TP on Wheeling Thrust and Impulse Drive has questionable at best value...and given the TP nerf, DRG cannot really add extra damage via multi hit ws anymore like they used to, so you build TP faster to wait for the other melee regardless. Thats not much of an advantage.

Well said.

Is it really worth me pushing DRG over Lv60 or should I just change jobs once it hits 60?
I was thinking PLD and that would certainly ease the stress off my shoulders.