Not to say I told you so.....

[Weezingpipes]

And if you don't get the above comparison : 900 damage Spin Slash is more than 260 damage Wheeling Thrust. 900 > 260. Feel free to add in Wyvern breath damage (lets say, 57) for a good ole 317.

So in case you weren't clear, 900 > 317.

[Dano]

wheeling thrust is really gimped, only useful thing it does is do a quick light chain with other weapon skills that has Fragmentation property

yer only last hope is impulse drive, i havent had the chance to see it since the drg in my shell quit playin drg at lvl70 becoz of the skeletons in king ramps tomb

[Lan'Urk]

For the guys saying that melee are useless, and mages rule the world, let me shed you some light... Mages cant survive w/o melees... that simple... yes they can marathon SOME monsters but just for a short period of time, cuz the resist rate to gravity and etc.. keeps building up. So before you assume that mages are all you need in endgame think that assumption through. Mages need melee as much as melee needs mages. although I can not deny that some melee classes arent as "desired" as others, but thats your choice wether you want to be desired or do what you think is fun for you.

also dont come saying that mages have it easy, cuz that just a HUGE load of crap... they have to spend millions on spells/food/equipment, and most of that money they dont see it back like we do. and they dont farm as efficiently... so mages have to work a lot harder to outclass a melee.

Now sure, if you want to do a buttload of damage on HNMs and get yourself killed, by all means, go be a overnuking BLM... and have fun. I wont have any problem hanging out with my DRG and SAM friends doing pathetic damage and having a ball.

I guess all this "Uberness" talk made a lot of people forget what this game is for, interact with different people, make some friends and have some fun.

[kitzkozan]

Melee are having a hard time against HNM because there is a wide level gap between us and the monster.

We are talking about a 10-15 level difference so connecting with a hNM is very hard.While it is true that we have a hard time dealing damage against them,we are needed to absorb the punishment.Mage are the only one capable of dealing sure damage with nuke,even if the spell are resisted.

Melee is in no way inferior to mage.As a melee player,I can farm better than most mage except redmage.We are always needed in exp party,although there are so many of us that we are simply stealing ourself some spot.

As for the blizzard comment,I agree that they have a proven record with the customer as far as making a game fun to play and not frustrating the gamer but as someone who followed Warcraft III I can tell you there was plenty of frustrating moment in that game.I remember when there was this cheap ancient rush :mad: Night elves were already very strong,this tactic made them godly in the hand of elite players.Frustrating for many,and it's no surprise to see it didn't do as well as starcraft.Not to mention,mage were ruling above all in the original game.Mage>flying>melee if I remember right.Not only would an army of mage slow down your melee force but mage would rape both melee and flying unit becuase of armor weakness and inbalance.

[Weezingpipes]

So before you assume that mages are all you need in endgame think that assumption through

No, its not an assumption, its true. Someone mentioned the level of the monsters which is true : level has a much greater impact on melees' role than it does to casters. While casters get resisted more when monsters have higher levels, melee miss constantly or hit for shit all damage. There is a reason Spirits Within is the WS of choice for all melee who can use it. The only HNM melee are decent at is old world ones they can fully hit and don't have mad DEF to them. Needless to say, HNM design is retarded at best. Some of the strats people use to kill them are like...if people used these strats in EQ to kill raid monsters, they'd be laughed out because a lot of them literally are absurd, but thats about all that works. You can't straight tank much unless the tank has blink simply because they deal too much damage to be straight tanked, and even then its sometimes not an option. Melee have to run all over the place to not suck obscene damage abilities and hell if they die it usually doesn't matter, they just get tractored and raised again to run around dealing next to no damage endlessly. During all this, mages can stand safely out of range on most fights, pop off nukes on occasion minding their hate gain. Its dumb at best. I never said melee never had use in exp settings, its way more efficient to exp with melees than not to, but on any zilart HNM its been proven the people who count are the mages, and the melee really don't.

[Elohan]

Just out of curiousity, and considering that SquareEnix respects their JP fanbase more than us, just what is the JP player reaction to all this and the DRG class? Are they upset enough that we can hope for any kinds of fixes? Oh excuse me, "corrections"?

I bet if the JP players are upset enough, perhaps the devs will take this issue seriously. Otherwise we're gonna be stuck with all these "issues" for the DRG as a class.

[Weezingpipes]

JP don't complain about shit all. They'd play something else before making complaints no matter how valid the complaint might be.

In short, this is how it is forever.

[Zafron]

Originally posted by Weezingpipes
DRG don't complain about shit all. They'd play something else before making complaints no matter how valid the complaint might be.

In short, this is how it is forever.

I think he meant JP not DRG, and he is right. I lived in musashi moriama(phonetic spelling i guess) for 2 years as a kid. JP people do not complain about anything, ever. I think it has something to do with their collectivist culture(anyone who went past PSYCH101 feel free to correct me).

[Elohan]

How come I keep hearing anecdotal stuff about how DRKs didn't have their atk passives and that the JP fanbase complained so much that the devs finally took notice? I was hoping for something similar to happen for us.

If anyone with a brain at SE just looks at the simple population statistics, they'd find a gross discrepency at higher levels. Doesn't that indicate some kind of problem? Dare I say imbalance?