Not to say I told you so.....

[Azzael]

level 69, 84 dmg 3 vit 492 delay

VIT!? Do they even PLAY this game?

:mad:

[TiredTaru]

I wonder where the notion that dragoons could tank slightly came from. I don't even believe that we can tank better than dark knights/samurais thanks to their heavier armor selection.

Uhm, with defender up I maybe take twice the damage of our paladin. Hehe.

Good thing we get all this VIT+ stuff, eh? Heavens forbid that our AF1 gave us something better than DEX+1 VIT+1.

[Omena]

Originally posted by Weezingpipes
Worst patch ever. Spirit link is ehh...not really making me like DRG much. The shit tp return on ws just makes them all the more frustrating to play. BUT they added a new lance (looks crafted) - level 69, 84 dmg 3 vit 492 delay. They could have at least PRETENDED to try to give us a viable weapon upgrade during those levels to supplement the problematic itemization, but instead we get that...

Melee slip even further behind casters at the high end with no sign of coming close to mattering. Shit damage is shit damage, and we're at the lowest end now. The more I play the more I am amazed S-E managed to fuck up melee so badly in this game, especially DRG.

Any newb reading this, don't waste your time being a DRG. Hell don't be a melee, period. The entire game only needs mages, PLD, NIN, and thats it. Everything else in the long run is irrelevant.

So true. What use do melee damage delears have now that rangers and black mages outdamage them even more than before? The only thing melee had going on for them was skill chains and creating opportunities for magic bursts. Now that happens so rarely it's a better idea to just put in black mages or rangers in their spots.

Seems like SE rangers and mages. They were over powered before, and now they're even more over powered.

[Weezingpipes]

Thats the problem in the high end. While its an advantage that MNK no longer make hnm fire off specials when they ws/melee, the fact is a BLM fills the spot better regardless. RNG aren't super amazing on HNM for some odd reason...no melee is. MNK does good damage but not usually worthwhile for them to melee if the specials are too damaging. In terms of utility DRK is the best because of Stun..which again, can be replaced by a BLM. Casters are simply better. There is no advantage to a melee. Hell casters will almost always be out of range of AE's, almost always be able to heal themselves/cure their own status/have blink. Melee are just dead weight. The higher hp doesn't matter, in fact melee have worse survivability on HNM then casters do because of all the above.

Skillchains are sort of laughable. They are never really needed on a HNM, just nice for exping. That is the extent of melee usefulness, to help the mages level faster.

How about they increase HNM resists a rediculous amount, compensation for all the HNM melee can't even hit at level 75, have rediculously high DEF, high damage short range ae attacks. Its bad enough almost all HNM are killed via rediculous tactics that don't involve skilled play, mostly luck and kiting. Only ones that are actual "fights" are old world ones and they are a joke.

[Ookima]

Weezing, I am starting to think your way more and more everyday I play this game, and with the new patch, it does seem to make melee take a step back.

But serious, now that SE has crippled DRG so badly, that maybe they will start to notice the problem with the class and improve it...hell...hope they see this seems to have a negative impact on all melees and improve things overall.

[JayblahX]

Weezing,

I can't stomach being another backliner, as I've been one in most of the MMORPGs I've played (EQ, EQoA, DAoC). Frontliners are much, much more fun until end-game reality sets in: You are a bitch to a Mage. You might be the baddest-ass on the friggin' world with your bigass Scythe and bulging Monk muscles, but in the end, you're still some lil' goddamned Taru's red-headed stepchild. The only Mage class I feel I could ever stomach playing is a Summoner, and they have my respect because it takes a lot of frustration to build that class up.

I agree with you Weezing, from all that I've read and data I've picked up on, that melees in this game are jokes in the end-game and that S-E really dropped the ball on game balance. I also hear that the Japanese keep quiet about this shit because of cultural values and how it might be insulting to the developers if they bring it up with S-E. I hope this isn't true, and if it is, give me a damned break.

There is never a level at this game where a Mage isn't the most fawned over class; while melees (not tanks, but melees) fend for scraps. All this struggle only to find out the truth from high-levels like yourself, or Awntawn, or DJPlaeskool; we suck at the end-game, really makes it hard for me to not delete my Monk. I mean DJPlaeskool was talking about how if he equips +MND gear and boosts for 3 minutes, he can unleash a Chi Blast once every 5 minutes that does pathetic damage when compared to a BLM. So I take it, end-game melees are ghetto-nukers for crying out loud (Spirits Within, Chi Blast).

Maybe someone should sticky a post telling players not to make melees because of cold-hard reality, instead to make a Mage. That'll hopefully lighten up the amount of melee competing for spots, and increase Mage competition. Its almost like a rift in this game between mages and melee: We are needed by them to level up, as they are needed by us to level up, but once HNM levels come by, it seems Mages kick our asses out like used up has beens.

I have a Taru BLM I consider playing, but I just can't give up my melee, call it stupidity or stubborness. I hope one day S-E does what Sony did and balance HNMs in a variety of ways: Make certain UBER HNMs be weak to physical damage and highly resistant to Magic damage, give these Mages a taste of our medicine. EQoA:Frontiers had encounters like this, which allowed melees to shine as well as mages.

If things don't change by the time I'm at the end-game, I'll be looking highly forward to World of Warcraft; give me an American MMORPG with a company that has a proven track-record of making decisions based on customer appeal anyday.

[Macht]

Even though people are hating this new update now. I see it as something that was needed. From what I started to gather with higher levels is the use of coordinating the group to make an effective skillchain became less and less frequent. Jobs that were able to make some sort of cycle with their WS did so, which in the end if that kept up it would of basically made skillchains an exclusive to only a set few.

Not to mention what anyone able to cycle Penta Thrust or Asuran Fists like that regardless of weather you did a lot of damage with it or not, being able to create self-renkei's was suppose to be a SAM exclusive ability. That's the main focus of their 2hr, every time I look at how the changes are made and how each jobs traits and such are given to them you can see the obvious trend with them.

WAR - Basic fighter able to use many weapons (Flexible fighters that have the potential of assiting in making many possible skillchains)
THF - Masters of Evasion and Hate Control (Able to dodge attacks and focus the monsters hate on another person)
MNK - Mass damage dealers (Release multiple attacks to cripple a monster's ability, greater chance of negating a spell type monster's spell)
WHM - Master Healers (Hope I don't have to explain more to this)
BLM - Master of Dark Arts and Elements (Again I hope this is one I don't have to explain)
RDM - Fast Spellcasters that blend sword and magic (If you actually think about the Fast Cast spell and how it leaves a gap till you can cast again, that gap is almost a perfect fit to get a hit or two in-between spells)
SAM - TP/Renkei Masters (Capable of gaining lots of TP quickly, with their meditate AF and TP already over 100% they still are capable of performing a self-renkei)
DRG - Dragon Masters (Their goal isn't suppose to be their own power but their dragon's, though another viable use for them is to shead hate threw jumps)
BST - As the name says Beast Masters (Able to bring in extra help to defeat a monster, giving added damage at a small cost to their exp)
NIN - Ninjitsu/Throwing Masters (Able to use Ninjitsu to protect themselves from harm, deal good damage threw throwing, and if all else fails cheat exp loss threw a sucidial act)
PLD - Defense Masters (With a form of hate control to them, they are able to take bruital attacks with less damage)
DRK - Powerfull Damage dealer, basically something like a Vampire (They use Dark Magic to absorb various stats/life/magic from the enemy)
RNG - Range Attack Masters with the potential of ending a fight before it starts (Ranger should have a variety of different ranged weapons as well as ammo at their disposal, bow/gun with a very short delay to fire fast and ones with high DMG to shorten a battle. Holding the most accurate ranged accuracy then any other.)
BRD - Party wide enhancers (Capable of changing the flow of a battle by a simple song, making the edurance of party stronger, shortening the downtime, or shortening the battles themselves)
SMN - As the name says Summoners (Calls up powerfull Avatar's to fight for them, the Summoners goal himself should be to increasing his Summon's Power as well as increasing their ability to sustain a Summons longer)

I know I'm missing some in there those jobs just are not comming to mind right now. Basically you should get the picture of what I'm getting at, not all the jobs right now fit those definitions but with each update you see they start to fit it more and more. If their is enough players complaining though about the TP there might be an adjustment to it, one of the most viable I see was mentioned on this board of at least making the first hit to actually hit the monster give back normal TP and the rest be 1TP. Other then that one being done the only other possible change is instead of 1 TP being returned a hit something like 2 or 3 would be done.

Basically the TP issue will still be monitored so that SAM's TP gain and Renkei abilities are not just dismissed. It's obvious that they were in the past, previous threads on this board even puts down SAM's as being an inadequate TP gaining job which is suppose to be their defining ability.

[Netrus]

im sure theyll even out the jobs they are prolly just seeing how things are done as they update and then go on what the "errors" are and just correct it in the next update or change another job. but hell who knows just gotta go with the flow because they know what theyre doing even if it doesnt seem right. so maybe the next update will better the jobs who knows. . . . .

[Cordain]

Meh TP nerf isint so bad for me anymore I guess I'm getting used to it. I tried fighting Maat even with the PT nerf and I still beat him so It honestly can't be all that bad.......I guess?

[Macht]

Funny thing that comes to mind is if the NPC's were complaining to that they can't use their special attacks as often now too o.O

[Weezingpipes]

Ok skippy, seeing as you don't actually play the game, lemme give you the real break down per job

WAR : Viable tank at most levels, high damage melee at all levels. In exp settings, hard to go wrong with this job.

THF : weak melee damage made up for by hate transfer abilities (Trick Attack) supplemented by large burst damage every minute. DRK/THF ends up replacing their role significantly better at higher levels.

MNK : the only really high damage melee in the game. There is no downside to this job at all, besides the standard downsides all melee have fighting HNM's. In spite of that, still the best damage melee

WHM : what is considered the most boring job in the game by many, the only advantage they have is higher raise spells. Otherwise, SMN or RDM can replace them fine as primary healer.

BLM : the only job thats damage output isn't really better fighting lower level monsters. Also the only job that gets to do real damage on HNM. In other words, one of the only jobs that actually matters.

RDM : this is a refresh bot. Thats about all they do. Oh and Enfeebles. Thats it really. A good RDM has no time to melee cuz they are too busy casting. Its a highly efficient job also due to convert, and an adequate substitute to a WHM in exp groups, but not quite comparably as good in the support role as a BRD.

SAM : higher tp gain than most jobs, can make basically any level 1 renkei around due to GK's versatility, they lose that utility 65-71 really as other jobs get better WS. That versatility goes out the window as other jobs end up with the same versatility 65+, and all SAM becomes is a weak melee even with both WS. And no, the TP nerf to other jobs didn't really help SAM.

DRG : the quintessential FF fanboy job, presently the second weakest job around. The little retarded Red Mage that follows it around, also known as a wyvern, is a gimmick that adds little and combined they do about the dmg of a drk. Weak, weak weapon skills, basically this job is around to allow THF to play shitty without fucking a group entirely.

BST : who cares what they do, its a job built around soloing. They solo for as much exp gain as a bad full group pulls in per hour. On that basis, likely the only balanced job as everyone plays a BST knowing they have minimal group desireability.

NIN : Best tank in the game level 37+. Many HNM only a NIN can tank really, or PLD/NIN, which is itemization dependant. The only zilart job which doesn't suck and is due for a nerf soon enough I'm sure. Actually required to be a good player to be a good NIN.

PLD : most reliable tank in the game. Brainless agro production, low damage output, but really its hard to be an especially bad
PLD since the tools to be a good one are so readily available.

DRK : solid melee damage, decent utility spell wise. Gets a lot better 65+. Basically interchangeable with a WAR in a damage dealer slot.

RNG : highest damage melee job period, highly expensive to be a good RNG but its all around fine.

BRD : the only real support job. Nothing helps parties as much as Bards do.

SMN : they only really have group stoneskin, group blink, and acc buff as actual useful abilities. Most summons are a waste of mp, Garuda, Fenrir and to a much lesser extent Titan the only decent ones. Abilities that simply cost too much mp often, and avatar melee is shit so seldom worth having them out for more than just to do some buff. Another broken job, but at least with WHM sub they can fill in the WHM spot in a party due to super high mp. Alternatively, a WHM/SMN is basically as effective as a full time SMN. Hell anything with SMN sub is basically as effective as the full time version.

This patch wasn't properly done. It didn't fix a problem, it created more disparities.

Thats where all jobs stand at the moment.

[kazthegun]

disclaimer: i'm a drk. the only personal experience i have with drgs is PT'ing with them, and that's not often, considering we're used for the same spot. i also haven't experienced the end-game yet; i haven't even really experienced the high-lvl game. but i'd like to think i'm fairly educated when it comes to this game, from research of websites to forum-reading to in-game discussion with friends. as of this writing, i am level 55 in drk, 30 with thf, 28 with war, and much lower levels with other jobs.

anyway...

melee damage dealers are already the bottom-feeders of the PT system. on nights when i'm doing homework, i've waited up to six hours before closing FFXI to do something more useful with my internet connection. i've had to disband PTs or fight with only five members because we could not find a rdm or a brd or any other magic-using class, for that matter. melee damage dealers are also the bottom-feeders of the HNM system, from everything that i've read and heard (weezingpipe's and ayako's posts come to mind here). melee damage dealers are great at farming but suck when it comes to mitigating downtime, unless subbing whm, which removes the option of subbing thf for TH1, tonzura (flee), steal, etc. -- i can definitely speak from experience in this realm. while killing is pretty fast, i have a very strong feeling that rdm would be more efficient (and perhaps even whm), since 1h-sword can do 60-80 dmg on too weaks at my level, and fast blade tends to do the same damage as vorpal scythe.

(now, you can replace "melee damage dealer" with "DRG" in the above paragraph).

the patch's neutering of multi-hit WS's TP return affects DRG the most, in my opinion, because penta thrust, no matter what you may think, really does define the job from lv49-60, if not in the eyes of the DRG, then definitely in the eyes of anyone looking to fill the melee damage dealer slot in a PT. for no other job does TP return of a multi-hit WS matter as much as for DRG. all other things considered equal, the only reason a DRG gets picked over me at my level is penta thrust. at level 60, why would a drg/thf be picked over a drk/thf? why would a drg/war be picked over a mnk/war? why would a drg/sam be picked over a rng/sam? once penta thrust loses its desirability to people forming PTs, the DRG has nothing to differentiate him or herself from the other melee damage dealers. only those without firsthand experience seem to defend the DRG by firing off a list of the DRG's abilities, because when it comes down to it, no one picks DRG solely for jumps, just as no one picks DRK for souleater, and no one picks MNK for chi blast.

what am i trying to get at, other than "DRG sucks?"

this is my point, as others have stated: there is a serious balance issue here, primarily with DRGs, but also a balance issue that can be extrapolated to other melee damage dealers. if you make what defines a job useless, then you create an imbalance -- the job itself becomes useless. i'm already afraid of not being able to see all that the end-game has to offer, because of the weakness of melee damage dealers vs. HNM.

what defines BLMs? magic damage. when is magic damage ever useless? i can't really think of such a time.

what defines WHMs? healing. i have yet to encounter a time in which healing is completely useless.

i could go on and on about each class, but i think i've seen such lists elsewhere and i don't really feel like it's necessary; my point has been made.

(edit: weezingpipes, thanks for the breakdown on where classes stand. coming from a high-lvl player whose opinion i respect, it's a great resource).

there is nothing unique about DRGs, that i can see right now, that makes them more desired in a group situation at any stage of the game moreso than every other melee damage dealer, a group that is already not extremely desired in group situations. and group situations make up the bulk of FFXI's gameplay experience.

in summation: melee damage dealers with great multi-hit WS got fucked and DRGs got fucked even more. square-enix's efforts to improve FFXI have been mostly laudable, but game balance in its entirety needs to be examined, in my opinion.

[AtraposBLM]

If only black mages were highly sought after...


To be honest, you all might think that mages own melee in all circumstances, but not in an exp party. I had a party with the following:
1 pld/war, 3 blm/whm, 1 rdm/whm, and 1 whm/brd.

All good players, fighting mobs that were weak to the best spells the blm's had available (steel shells in boyahda), and the best we were able to pull was ~2.2k/hour.

People underestimate the value of a skillchain and the burst damage that happens because of it.


After reading all of this crap about how much better BLM's were than other damage dealers pre-patch, I'm tempted to go through and find all the posts that said after lv55-60, black mages were useless. If I had a dollar for every time someone told me blm's weren't needed, or that we became gimped whm's in the upper levels, I'd be one rich sonofabitch.

Right now, with food, I have 932 mp. In an average fight, I'd use at most 200 mp. Why? Because people could spam their multi-hit weapon skills, and deal tons of damage without ever having to use a skill chain for me to burst on. If I wanted to, I couldn't burn more than 300-400 mp (without resorting to AM's or mass -ga's) before the mob was dead. Why? Melee killed it so fast that my damage wasn't even needed.

Do you know what I was told to do? 1) Rest to full MP every fight 2) Refresh any of the elemental debuffs the rdm couldn't get to stick 3) Help heal and finally, 4) MB. Did I bitch and moan? No. Did I LIKE that my DAMAGE DEALING CLASS was turned into just a gimped whm without Cure IV or V? No. Did I think it was unfair that melee's (without having to spend NEARLY the amount of money I did) could outdamage me (only in the sense that if I tried to keep up with the damage, I'd just burn excessive MP for nothing but overkill)? Yeah, I did.


Don't just assume that playing black mage was fine and dandy before this patch. Do you know how many times DRK's, MNK's, DRG's, etc., all told me that I was just a useless job?

Keep in mind that I have always had my latest spells, my latest gear, and I carefully weigh what I wear in every single slot. By no means am I gimped, and in an exp session that lasts 3-6 hours, I might miss 1 or 2 MB's (at most), assuming the melee's don't miss their weapon skills.

Oh, and not only that - my farming ability was SO MUCH WORSE than yours, and even after the patch, my farming ability STILL sucks worse than yours. Don't believe me? Try playing a blm and farming. Or even just follow me around as I try to farm. It takes a dick year, and the rewards aren't even very good. Oh, and if I even *try* to sub thf...I can no longer farm just about anything. My drg/(war/sam/thf) friend, however, can absolutely RUIN goblins in TONS of zones, and while he's doing it, he can steal beastcoins and other goodies off the gobbies.


Seriously - I feel your pain. Just don't assume mages have it any better than you. The only job that I know of that doesn't have issues trying to find parties is a bard (and from lv41-55, RDM's). Every other job I've talked to has gone days or weeks without a party...

But yeah, somebody needs to play brd more...because as is, I can count the amount of 55+ brd's on midgardsormr that aren't /anon on 2 hands even during peak hours...while any other job is at like 80-100+.

Bah...went off on a few tangents...

Anyways - stop dissing the mage's. WHM's, BLM's, and even sometimes RDM's have issues getting parties too. They might not be as bad as yours, but it's less so the fact that your job isn't as good, and more so A) the fact that 8/10 people on midgardsormr have statics and B) SO MANY PEOPLE PLAY DRG or DRK it's not even funny. How do you think you're going to find a group when there's like 9 of the same jobs as you in your level bracket LFP during the same time you are...By no fault of your own, the chance YOU'll be picked over another drg is entirely random. Rather than using it for proof-de-facto that your job sucks, maybe you should go do something else with your time. Try out being a mage, go farm, etc. Do something. Honestly, if you say you were LFP for 6 hours and you just sat around...you're stupid. Go farm some gil and buy the uber gear for your level. Then advertise it in your comment message. I'd take an Assault Jerkin clad drg over an AF-clad drk any day...

[JayblahX]

Atropos,

What you say is possibly true; I too have read accounts of BLMs not being ideal at a certain level range (I believe 60+ parties) because LVL3 renkei chains can get the job done just as well.

However, I'm more inclined to believe you are exaggerating out your ass with pretty much everything else.

It doesn't matter WHY melees have a hard time getting parties (no one is stupid to call melees gimps in an XP party), the fact remains that melee struggle exceeds mage struggle (if you can call it that). The very nature of you having some Enfeebles or Cures in your arsenal and a vast MP pool makes you more sought after. The result: You make it to the end-game faster and then you become gods.

Melees (the non-static pampered ones) make it to the end-game slooooower, only to find out they are useless.

So pardon me if I don't shed a tear for some poor "struggling" BLM while I continue to plead mages to join my groups (I make my own groups only, as thats the best thing for me to do) and take my ass to 75.

Also, please cut the SHIT about a mage incapable of farming and thus not earning much. Mages get invited into BCNMs, high-level NMs, or HNM combat much more often than most melees, and the resulting spoils of those events are often more profitable than a melee spending hours to farm praying he gets the first hit on Leaping Lizzy.

The point is, Atropos: Mages' struggle pays off in SPADES when they hit 75. All the things you mention (Melee doing dmg without spending the money you did) and all that shit; MOOT at 75 when you become the Damage Dealer class you were born to be. Melee struggle NEVER pays off in-game.

Put another way: Mages experience some non-desirable roles in an XP party (The BLM thats forced to heal, for example). They however, have the rest of the game (the end-game, level 75) to play the way they were born to play (BLM vs. HNMs for example). The melees have the rest of their level 75 high-end career to Boost for 3 minutes and use Chi Blast, or hope you get 300% to use Spirits Within. WOW. :sweat:

[AtraposBLM]

Originally posted by JayblahX
Atropos,

What you say is possibly true; I too have read accounts of BLMs not being ideal at a certain level range (I believe 60+ parties) because LVL3 renkei chains can get the job done just as well.

However, I'm more inclined to believe you are exaggerating out your ass with pretty much everything else.

It doesn't matter WHY melees have a hard time getting parties (no one is stupid to call melees gimps in an XP party), the fact remains that melee struggle exceeds mage struggle (if you can call it that). The very nature of you having some Enfeebles or Cures in your arsenal and a vast MP pool makes you more sought after. The result: You make it to the end-game faster and then you become gods.

Melees (the non-static pampered ones) make it to the end-game slooooower, only to find out they are useless.

So pardon me if I don't shed a tear for some poor "struggling" BLM while I continue to plead mages to join my groups (I make my own groups only, as thats the best thing for me to do) and take my ass to 75.

Also, please cut the SHIT about a mage incapable of farming and thus not earning much. Mages get invited into BCNMs, high-level NMs, or HNM combat much more often than most melees, and the resulting spoils of those events are often more profitable than a melee spending hours to farm praying he gets the first hit on Leaping Lizzy.

This coming from Mr. Level 23.

I'm serious, follow me around while I try to farm. I've never seen better than 10k/hour. Do you have any idea how much more gil I've had to spend to get where I'm at than your average melee (if you want to talk about the Haubergon wearing ones, let me introduce you to something called Vermillion Cloak)?

As for BCNM's - yeah, people are prejudice. Doesn't mean they want blm's in BCNM's. Have you even done any? Do you know what a black mage's role in a BC40 is? Cure, and silence. That's it. Do you know how many invites I've ever gotten for a BC40 (even with advertisements) that I didn't arrange beforehand? Exactly 1. Yeah, that was totally cool. Not to mention the fact that BCNM's are totally profitable now. Yeah. How much gil do you spend to do one? 200? Yeah, I have to buy 5-6 melon juices or 3-4 yagudo drinks. Most BC40's at this point can't even pay for THAT. And unless you're doing it with friends, yes, these ARE neccessary. But if you're doing them with friends...the invite thing isn't exactly relevant, is it? Btw, Dragoon's are perfectly fine in BC40. Just have to know what you're doing is all. Yeah, you might not set any records, but who gives a shit. The records are set by 6 bst anyways, so what use is their crying that you're not a speed demon?

As for a BC60 - 90% of mine were done with a Dragoon friend of mine. Have I gotten any random invites? 2. That's WITH Sleepga II advertised in my comments. Awesome. I spend 180k gil, and in 12 runs, only ONE run has made me more than pocket change (that's when Spectacles dropped. Not exactly a reliable source of income). I define pocket change to be anything less than 20k per person, btw. You know what a dragoon needs for a BC60? A meat mithkabob. You're damn fucking right I should get more invites. Oh, and you know who dies first in them? A blm. Yeah, it's a real cakewalk. I get to spend 180,000 gil so that I can do bcnm's with random newbies, die without raise II and not make any money. Awesome.

High level NMs - yeah. right. The only ones that make any money can be taken by lv65 parties (amemit / aquarious). Most can be solo'd by a ninja or war/nin (look at that, a melee).

HNMs - yeah. This is really just about who you know and how well you can kiss ass. I have friends in several different HNM ls's, but not one ever even told me about them. The only reason I ever found the one I'm currently *trying* to get into (read *trying* as I still don't know whether or not I'm in. Yeah, it's so easy for us blm's, right?) is because of a random kid that told me about it after we had a discussion about my ice staff (he wasn't sure he wanted to spend 600k on it or 900k on a dark staff) and his shaman's cloak (I wanted to know where exactly it dropped). Oh, and not only that, HNM's aren't even a very good way to make money. For one thing, they only spawn once a day at best, and for another, at any given time, there'll be 2-3 ALLIANCES worth of people competing for one spawn. Add the fact that for the most part, LS's do HNM's to pimp out the gear of their members (meaning even when you DO get those uber drops, someone ends up getting to keep it), so you do it more for fun/help than money. Maybe that changes with some of the ridiculous HNM's (fafnir, etc.), but even then...that's not exactly a thing to rely on to get you to lv75...

Oh, and in the past month and a half, do you know how many parties I was invited to? 3. Every other party I started on my own, and at the end of them, ideal setup or not, every single person says it was the best party they've ever had.

Just quit wallowing. Nobody has it easy in the game except bards.


And the name is Atrapos. Come back and talk to me after you get past genkei 1, where it doesn't matter what job you are, it's a function of who you've helped and who you know combined with how lucky you are.