Yay!

[Kibagami]

Yea well dont worry, now DRkK need to wait till cross reaper for their first good WS, thats how many lvls?

The tp nerf was maid cause of ballista, imagine penta spaming all the players? or how about gillo after gillo?
That would take out all the fun of ballista.

First one to get 100% tp wins!!!

And poor SAM cant do self renkei anymore. Arent they tp kings?

[TMPikachu]

Originally posted by Kibagami
Yea well dont worry, now DRkK need to wait till cross reaper for their first good WS, thats how many lvls?

The tp nerf was maid cause of ballista, imagine penta spaming all the players? or how about gillo after gillo?
That would take out all the fun of ballista.

First one to get 100% tp wins!!!

And poor SAM cant do self renkei anymore. Arent they tp kings?

In ballista, traits like blind/paralyze/sleep resist are strengthened
outside of ballista, they return to normal

In ballista, melee has a greater range. Outside of ballista, it returns to normal

If the TP reduction was made to balance ballista alone, they would have only made it apply to Ballista.

[tam]

i agree sam is supposed to be tp kings

and they are... with meditate they can pull off 2 renkeis with differnt people and i like it about them and yes sams seems a bit weak to most people tho but combined with a good blm... who knows how to burst ... sams are pretty good considering the 2 magic bursts that are created

and no drgs are not tp kings... i never said dragoons were... but pentathrust was basically one of our few upsides to the job.... cause it did mediocre-poor damage but gave us good tp return to do it again not long after. the ws after pentathrust tho... can be somewhat laughable... skewer... is a 3 hit WS with sometimes lower damage than penta.....wheeling thrust... 1 hit tp = lowers defense ws..1 hit.... so u cant get much damage from them.... after that its impulse at lvl 71 ... and impulse is ... mediocre for a ws 2 hit i believe ... whats annoying to me is that all our ws are eclipsed by our rival attacker classes (mnk drk rng etc) and theres not much more u can do ... plus .. our jumps #1 dont always land #2 arent too much of a difference maker

ok one may say our wyvern helps us out... but when the drk hits for 130 and u hit for 80-90 ... the wyvern doesnt help u out too much ><!

[Malefas]

Skewer isn't that bad, in fact it will outperform Penta in terms of damage within an exp PT scenario more times than not.

Also, it has the same element that Double Thrust/Raiden Thrust did, so it doesn't really screw up the skillchains that are available to you.

Wheeling Thrust however, obtained at 65, is the worst weaponskill in terms of damage that Dragoons get. It will basically do 150-250 damage regardless of what you're fighting, and the odd 350 if a double attack goes off. Also, it is only a 1 hit weaponskill which will miss from time to time, not a whole lot, but enough to annoy you. It's redeeming factor is the ability to create a light burst, but of course, you'll want to be using Wheeling Thrust as the first weaponskill in the chain.

Impulse Drive helps create a dark burst, so you may be asked more often than not to stick with Wheeling Thurst past 71... which sucks somewhat, haha.

[Nodoka]

>In ballista, traits like blind/paralyze/sleep resist are strengthened
outside of ballista, they return to normal

They are not. What effects the success of that stuff is their MND, your MND, their Enfeebling skill and you're elemental resistance. All mobs in this game have some sort of element resistance which makes it hard to do certain spells. Try burning a fire elemental or landing frost on Shiva. Those are extremes, but still.

The reason that stuff lands easily is because players have next to nothing elemental resistance. If you dont want blind/sleep, get dark resistance, if you dont want paralysis, get ice resistance. They were not strengthened in any way.

[LampShade]

Special Abilities
Provoke
Provoke can be used to lock the target of an enemy player. While provoked, a player can only target the provoker. All actions performed by the person provoked (attacks, magic, items, etc.) will be directed at the provoker.
This ability can be used to help teammates who are in trouble. However, Provoke is not guaranteed to take effect.

Steal
Petras can be stolen from members of the opposing force by using this ability.

Mug
Increases the chances of stealing large numbers of Petras from a member of the opposing forces.

Auto-Attack
During Ballista, the range of all melee weapons is increased.

"Resist" Abilities
All "Resist" abilities are enhanced.

Weapon Skills
The range of all melee weapon skills is increased. However, that of ranged weapons is not affected.

http://www.playonline.com/comnewsus/200404225213.html


...yup.

[AtraposBLM]

the above poster did what we call:
"pwnage"

<|Good job!|>

Really though, penta's usefulness in a party was minimal, as it had virtually zero renkei's that it could make that were usefull if you had a black mage in the party. If you didn't have a blm in the party, then perhaps it was better, but I have no experience with parties like that

Really, the main problem with dragoon, imo, is the weakness of their lv65 weapon skill. Also, considering the fact that they don't hit as hard as drk's, polearm's delay should be a bit lower, as just the wyvern doesn't really cut it as far as balancing that damage gap.

IMO, if they strengthed wheeling thrust to do 350-500 damage, dragoon's would be much better. Also, adding "jump accuracy up" traits at various levels would also be a step in the right direction. This would allow dragoon's to be competitive with other melee'ers, and would let them feel usefull



As a side note, I was wondering if any 65+ dragoons had tried /thf. My friend tried /thf at lv60-62, and said his damage actually wasn't that bad with skewer, as he was always guarenteed that first hit at *least*, so his damage was more consistent, anyways. The reason I ask, is that Sneak/Trick only effect one hit...so whereas pre 65 it wouldn't help your ws damage much (as most of your ws's are 2 or more hits), maybe using sata could boost your wheeling thrust damage a bit

The reason I ask is that I was recently in a party with a drk, and when she ding'd 66, she eventually got Cross Reaper (maybe it was 65...I don't really remember to tell you the truth). Anyways, I was stoked about doing the first ever burst on a lv3 renkei, and I was looking forward to seeing the spiffy new renkei effects. Her first (and best) cross reaper hit for ~550 damage. Darkness did ~400 damage. Granted, that was better than we managed before...but still. She was /war, btw, and stacked berserk+last resort+souleater for that 550 damage cross reaper. I think she managed a ~600 damage one at one point. Anyways, I was wondering if /Thf could help wheeling thrust's damage at all. I'm sure y'all have tried it...but just asking

[Malefas]

Well, there are 2 things you must ask yourself before coupling TA + SA with Wheeling Thrust (ie: subbing THF for Wheeling Thrust).

A) If you are partying with a DRK or a MNK, SA+ TA on to one of them is definately not the solution to the problem. DRGs abilities allow them to shed hate, but alas, DRK and MNK can not. Nothing better than stacking some damage on a DRK or a MNK before they start their weapon skill. And if the mob is turned to face them before the latter part of the chain, even if they do sub THF, they won't be able to use SA or TA on their part of the chain, ending up in a DRK's position alot of potential damage wasted, and a lower damage burst.

If you are with a THF, I suppose you could SA + TA off of each other, but you do lose the initial provoke when you are doing some tactics such as the initial SA + TA by the THF onto the PLD.

B) With the new update, skillchains have now made melee one-trick ponies in a battle (Usually one skillchain per battle), and therefore subbing THF will not allow you to use the all powerful Berserk. Because continuous damage is now the norm in exp PTs, Berserk matters (and double attack) alot more than it did before the patch. Subbing THF for a watered down SA + TA for damage within battles in my opinion is not worth the damage you lose without a WAR sub (Berserk and Double Attack).

Up to you if you want to play around with a THF sub, but in my opinion WAR sub seems to be the only way to go post-patch.

[Weezingpipes]

SA and TA would add about 100 damage to Wheeling Thrust. Nothing to get excited over. Bear in mind SA and TA doesn't add shit for damage really to any WS that isn't main job thf..Spin slash etc already do good damage, it just allows for transference Sort of depressed about Impulse Drive..granted its nice to be able to make either or, just kinda sucks on my server there is like 3930930499302 THF my level and almost all of them suck ass (JESUS CHRIST GET RID OF YOUR FUCKING GREED SCIMITAR ALREADY), which means I can't use Impulse Drive, and like 3 DRK for some reason. 0 SAM 70-75 most times of the day too, so even that isn't an option.

I'd like to try THF sub in an exp party now but...I'm just not seeing the merit to it what so ever. DRG seems better off subbing war to be trick bot in about 99.99999% of scenarios.

[Kibagami]

Wait a sec, Isnt Greed scimitar good as a lust dagger companion?

Or are they using it as main....which i doubt.


Oh yea, having TP return outside ballista would take attention off ballista IMO.

[Weezingpipes]

Here is a funny thing about Greed Scimitar. While yea it adds 7 dex, THF is D in sword, its slow, and the damage is kinda blahish. That is a fairly large difference in skill at level 70+ from A- weapon, which translates into a significant amount of misses. THF have argued it with me into the ground that the scimitar is worth it because it cranks up their fuidama damage by ~150 points. My response to that is if you used a dagger in the offhand, you'd do more damage from not missing so damn much making the extra damage rather moot. Seriously every group I've been in with a THF using that piece of shit, I gain about 170% TP for every 100% they gain. Often times in many fights I've seen THF unable to skillchain ONCE every fight because they can't keep up on TP gain due to volume of misses in the off hand. YES dual wield makes skill checks to hit in the offhand - its amazing to me how many people think it doesn't. Basically with NIN sub a THF using that sword is taking that much longer to swing for the same TP gain they would get just using 1 weapon, and also translates into noticeably lower total damage.

If people REALLY want stat gain, just use Lust Dagger in offhand. Still get bonus to fuidama damage and don't gimp their tp rate so bad in the process. It is seriously amazing how many THF think that sword is actually good.