March-April Announcements... Good News

[Carbon]

I disagree.

Penta Thrust has never been overpowered. If anything, it's grossly overrated.

that also outdamages every other WS at that level, if you can land those hits

That's the key phrase. *IF* you can land those hits. The majority of dragoons don't have 2X sniper rings at 49. Heck, the majority of dragoons (or any other damage melee) don't seem to ahve 2X sniper rings even at 60.

Not that sniper rings seem to matter since Penta Thrust is and always has been total ass regardless of how much +Acc I had.

And finally, seeing how rare they are, the majority of dragoons won't have a bard in their party.

I'm not sure if 35 RDM is your highest level job or not, but if it is, you haven't seen how sucky Penta Thrust can be. It doesn't need a nerf...if anything, it needs a boost.

Now, if this patch dramatically boosts the accuracy of Penta Thrust hits, then the TP gain nerf wouldn't be so bad.

Plus here's another question: What good weapon skill does polearm get then?

None.

Polearms have some *decent* weapon skills, but nothing that you could say is *awesome*.

1h swords: It's not a damage king weapon to begin with, so you don't really need an *awesome* WS - but you get Spirits Within which does do good damage under specific conditions.

Great swords: Sickle Moon, Spinning Slash.

Scythe: Guillotine, Cross Reaper.

Dagger: Dancing Edge, Viper Bite.

Great axe: Breaks, Sturmwind, Raging rush

Amongst others...

[Cammus]

Karinya no offense, but you are really missing a lot of points there! (are you a dragoon?)

I wish dragoons problem were only being able to keep Wyvern alive or not being able to fight bones.

At lvl 63 my best Weaponskill is still Pentathurst.

My average damage with it is anywhere from 68-200
getting a TP return from anywhere 0% to 60% (60% ONCE IN A TEN THOUSAND YEARS LOL). And it isnt my Equip i am Hume and with a +35 accuracy bonus (2x snipers, merman's gorget, life belt, assault earring, Grand Knights Lance).

By this lvl , Sidewinder will do 1.000 dmg, Dancing Edge 600-1000, Guilhotine 400-800. Insert your job here you will do more damage than 200.

And guess what we get nothing better our next WS are just as bad or worse.

Dragoons dont have a problem with keeping wyvern alive post AF. that fix only solve the problems of pre AF dragoons.

the nerf hits dragoons 49-55 where i admit we were overpowered. Ever saw a samurai at these lvls using a polearm though? ...

Anyway Penta Spam was for noobies or farmers, because if you do penta spam a super jump that only refreshes 5 mins wont save you from all the hate and you will be tanking the whole fight causing the mages to lose all MP while the Paladin stares mad at you.

The truth for this update is lvl 60+ Dragoons will cease to exist! i have 5 lvl 60+ Dragoons friend who quit this week , many others had quit even before this update.

We got an ability to heal wyvern which would been nice 30 lvls ago, when i actually had to lvl more times than i can count without my wyvern because it would be instantly dead.

And We got our better WS nerfed, when it was already bad enough. To say the truth penta thurst nerf doesnt even affect me at lvl 60+ it was so bad i didnt count on it anyway! I am just pissed that they dont realize how bad we are post 60+ and instead of bringing us up they are bringing us down.

Hence my hopes for a fix are gone now.

[FrozenChrono]

Man everyone's freaking out over this patch. I have seen nothing on the official site or anywhere but this forum that says they know exactly how TP will be regained on multihit WS's after the update. It also says several other changes will be announced at the update. For all we know they are planing on improving a few post 60 WS's for spears, or reducing the damage reduction bones get against spears.

Basically what I'm trying to say is you haven't even seen how the patch will effect game dynamics yet, and there isn't enough information to really tell, so calm down and see what happens. If the patch does completely destroy the game then feel free to complain, whine, and switch jobs. (I know that's what I'll be doing if that's the case) Once there are only like 2 active level 50+ Dragoons on each server I'm sure we'll get some attention.

Oh and if you wouldn't mind showing us where you're getting this info for the new multihit WS TP gain formula I'd be much more inclined to believe you.

[GSDragoon]

Yes, you can't forget the last line. The list posted it not the complete list. I'm hoping for a WS damage boost.

[Zafron]

Originally posted by FrozenChrono
Oh and if you wouldn't mind showing us where you're getting this info for the new multihit WS TP gain formula I'd be much more inclined to believe you.

DJplaeskool and Ayako are posting for everyones benefit so we can have a heads up if and when it does happen.

Would you rather they said nothing, and then all of a sudden when all is said and done SE is like "Oh by the way about mult-hit WS tp return...".

I for one am gratefull for the heads up. I like to know what DEVs are considering for future patches of the game even if nothing comes of it, but from DJs post i'm definately expecting some kind of nerf. I think mods generally make an effort not to post BS.

[Weezingpipes]

Multihit WS TP return is being nerfed because it is overpowered and always has been.

Ok, thats wrong. If you knew anything about combat in this game, you'd know delay affects tp returns. A lance with 492 delay returns 12% tp per hit. Guess how much tp is returned on a 999 delay lance, or 999 delay knuckles...I'm guesstimating around 21%. Asuran fists is 8 hits, given that delay, you can likely spam that WS endlessly with those knuckles.

Ok now think that through. Is the problem the weapons, or the WS? Seriously think. Yes, its the weapons. Multi hit ws were a way for melee to put some thought into their combat methods. I never Penta Thrusted without knowing I could keep up with the other melees TP, and regardless, the damage added by Penta Thrust was always bad at best. Its basically an extra 150-200ish damage assuming all hits land (which they don't with no bard), compared to THF Shark Bites for 900, etc, doesn't even come close. It hurts DRG soloing as well, seeing as we can't farm so well without Penta Thrust because of our craptastic def. Unless I sub a mage, a PLD outfarms me, simply have better survivability and their WS doesn't do shit damage vs weak monsters. TP management SHOULD be important. It should be a benefit to smart players and the people who group with them. Now there will be no TP management simply because why bother doing WS outside the skillchain.

This is the absolute worst decision SE is making. It WAS balanced. It created a dynamic in combat which allowed people options. On that note, I hope SE puts /Gems in so melee have something to do in parties. Lord knows it takes 0 attention to just ws for the skillchain.

[LunarGaze]

Wow this sucks. I don't have the regen for my wyvern yet being only lvl 57 so the ability is nice but, by the time the update comes out i will be at least lvl 58 with my AF body piece. If Ayako is right Penta is pretty much useless. I don't use it in parties i tend to use double thrust or raiden thrust to chain for distortion. Penta is still good for farming though now that is nerfed. Thanks SE way to hurt us more. :mad:

[Beoulve]

i think they might have nerfed the multihit ws in order to balance the pvp system. imagine fighting a mnk in pvp who can spam asura fist endlessly.

seriously this is just bad news for everyone, not just drg, with skewer i usally get back 36 tp and can renkei twice every battle, now i would be lucky if i can renkei twice every other battle. this will of course slow down the exp, among other things.

[FrozenChrono]

DJplaeskool and Ayako are posting for everyones benefit so we can have a heads up if and when it does happen. Would you rather they said nothing, and then all of a sudden when all is said and done SE is like "Oh by the way about mult-hit WS tp return...". I for one am gratefull for the heads up. I like to know what DEVs are considering for future patches of the game even if nothing comes of it, but from DJs post i'm definately expecting some kind of nerf. I think mods generally make an effort not to post BS.

I'm not saying not to post it, I'm just:

1. Asking what there source was so that I may verify it for myself (the source for the formula for tp gain that Ayako2 posted).
2.Saying that there has been no official announcment about the tp formula that I know of so it doesn't seem like it's time to freak yet.
3. Even if TP gain is getting a major nerf there is still hope that Dragoon skills or damage vs. bones will be upgraded.

It seems as if you are under the impression that I didn't like the original post of information that started this thread. If you are under that impression then I can assure you that I was only talking about Ayako2's post, and trying to give people some hope about the new patch.

[Beoulve]

i just come to realized that using penta thrust was the strategy to fighting maat for genkai 5. if they nerf the tp gains, we are just going to have a harder time killing him.

[Rodin]

Wow TP sucks, that means Sam and Drg are screwed. I hope that in the new Dynamis areas will drop more frequently with the Relic armor. I've heard nothing but bad news and seen only two peices so far.

[Kafeen]

Oh fucking god no. I hope this place isn't going to turn into what Pak0 was for RO. Whenever a change is made to any class all anyone does is focus on the negative effects of balancing a certain job and bitching about the company 'nerfing' thier class. They've addressed some major problems that Dragoons had with their wyverns making them useless if you were fighting anything with an AoE attack, now you can jsut dismiss them for the fight, chocobos, tempory job changes, etc and resummon them when they're needed but all anyone is focusing on is the fast that you can't overuse the most powerfull attack a Dragoon has anymore. This isn't something personal against Dragoons, ALL classes are going to have their TP gain adjusted and since there haven't actually been any details on the changes to the TP gain everyone just assuming they know what its going to be. At worst you're probably going to need 4 more hits before the TP is ready for use again. It doesn't take that long to get 4 hits if you have decent accuracy.

[Dark Aphalite]

Square are such idiots.
Just to balance out the little PvP they are making it affect the WHOLE game!

Why don't they make the TP Return patch only operational whilst in PvP instead of all the time!?

The only way I would forgive them is if the Wyvern auto-regen is constantly on (like a trait ability) and also stacks with the AF armor.
That way we could have the Wyvern out much more often which was the reason I even chose DRG.

Well only time will tell... S-E, you better not mess up.

[Hydroponik]

This is the absolute worst decision SE is making. It WAS balanced. It created a dynamic in combat which allowed people options. On that note, I hope SE puts /Gems in so melee have something to do in parties. Lord knows it takes 0 attention to just ws for the skillchain.

/Gems for the win....heh.

Anyway, I believe it is still too early to tell if this patch will nerf multi-hit ws. If it does get nerfed, well then SE will have made a huge mistake, but we'll just have to wait and see.

[FrozenChrono]

Wow I'm just amazed at everyones ability to stay negative. In any case I'm looking forward to seeing what the unmentioned features will be. Penta isn't the end all be all of being a dragoon, and all other classes will get the same changes to WS. Also there's that lingering possibility of having some of our late game WS improved, and having our damage vs. bones improved, I'd say that possibility is worth a general nerf to tp gain. Not to mention there is no confirmed source telling us exactly how multihit WS will be effected.

In any case I'm wondering what subtle blow is gonna be exactly. I'm betting its a hit that doesn't gain any hate, might be a passive in which case any given hit has a chance to not gain hate.