DRG's feeling screwed? do something about it!

[JexIntrepid]

Perfect jump?

That's way too overpowered.Unless jump was nerfed to do half dmg or something, like high jump.

And Impulse Drive i hear is a pretty damn good ws, don't know why ppl complain about it. It's probably the 3rd best ws of all dmg dealers at lvl 250 ws

Wheeling Thrust...needs some work, yeah, but you have pentathrust to use, and Skewer (very good ws) until your pt wants to light renkei, at which point you use Wheeling Thrust.

Not every job gets a great ws every step of the way. Some ws are just to stun, some lower mob def, and some are plain to be versatile and renkei better.

[tam]

impulse drive

on contrary ... *i mite be wrong*
impulse drive is not too good of a 250 ws
it LOOKS pretty good but ... not that good


and jumps...

ohh man... u dont know how much they miss...

and even if they hit....damage is like sometimes under ur normal damage...
i might get a crit on a jump at times... but then.. thats highly unlikely...

perfect jump overpowered?

i dun really think so..

jump to me is jus another way to get a lil tp
and is like a timed double attack that misses a lot >_<

[JexIntrepid]

Yeah but look at the cooldown for each jump

1 minute?
1:30 min?

That's actually quite fast, for a gain TP extra attack that can often do as much or more dmg than normal hit.
And if you do jump + high jump in 1 fight, and add a few double attacks you can gain TP quite fast, esp since drgs have acc + trait.

You might really be wrong about impulse drive too.
Unless you have the actual experience with the 250 ws, you shouldn't outright say it's not too good. Ask some of your higher lvl drg friends if there are any around. Mine say that impulse drive is a pretty damn good ws. I think their only gripe is that it comes too late in the game, and they should've had a better renkei before this one, one to replace wheeling thrust.

might not give you the TP return you want like penta did, but still good dmg.

[Weezingpipes]

Reuse time on Jump is 1:30. Reuse on High Jump is 3:00. Jump usually does 1.3 times the damage of a normal hit, and it can miss (often). High Jump usually does about 0.8 times the damage of a normal hit, can miss, and has a hate removal property. People don't usually use high jump for tp building anyway. The accuracy trait is shit, reason being DRG itemization is shit. WAR and DRK have a much wider selection of accuracy items, and given better selection can easily get more acc than a drg without compromising other stats, which allows for easier tp building. Hell MNK has better tp building than a DRG. Its baffling really. Most monks I have grouped with have hardly any acc items at all, don't miss too often, and out tp me with ease, and always deal better damage. When you hit for 90, and a MNK hits for 56 two times, guess which is better..

Impulse Drive is ok. Its better than Wheeling Thrust, but that isn't saying much.

[tam]

about impulse drive

ok... asked a 75 whm in my ls

and impulse is weak

only 250 ws that is really good is retribution (staff) and Asuran fist

thats what the whm said

[JexIntrepid]

right. didn't say what they were fighting, if it was bones, if it was a HNM, just said it's weak, didn't say which weapon they use, if the drg was well equipped....and you asked a white mage.

hmmm......

.....

....

after much consideration...i'm inclined not to believe you or the white mage.

[Carbon]

You do realize that a white mage would be an objective source?

As compared to a dragoon, who would possibly attempt to promote him/herself, or a dark knight who would possibly attempt demote the dragoon.

[imac2much]

Originally posted by JexIntrepid
right. didn't say what they were fighting, if it was bones, if it was a HNM, just said it's weak, didn't say which weapon they use, if the drg was well equipped....and you asked a white mage.

hmmm......

.....

....

after much consideration...i'm inclined not to believe you or the white mage.

Wow, what the heck is your problem? You got a real attitude problem man. Just cuz someone is stating a fact you don't like, you downplay their credibility and choose not to agree with them? That's like a 5 year old sticking his fingers in his ears and screaming "LALALALA I CAN'T HEAR YOU!"

They're obviously talking from a relative stand point. Relative to other 250 WS's, Impulse sucks. It's not rocket science.

[JexIntrepid]

not that

I just don't understand why she would not just ask a dragoon, who would have firsthand experience. That way she could easily tell me if the dragoon was well equipped, what subjob etc. Asking an objective source is fine, but just doesn't help me out.

I'd rather find out if Dragon Kick is a strong ws, by finding out from a monk in my LS who i know subs war, has good hq equipment, and maybe compare it to a monk with good hq but with thf subjob or something than to ask a bard in my LS who probably has seen it once or twice? what i mean is, unless that whm is in a static party with the dragoon, how can i even know for sure?

Sorry, didn't mean to sound rude, or infantile...i was just trying to be funny.:sweat: :sweat:

So, am I wrong in assuming the white mage was in a static party with a dragoon? cuz if I am right, then i'll take your word for it. If that whm isn't, then i'm sorry but that statement is not as reliable as I'd like it to be. There.



Besides isn't Eikochan a dragoon? I'm sure you have some higher lvl drg friends. just ask them.

[Weezingpipes]

Well its hard to find out how good the WS is really based on how many high level dragoons there are (which at least on my server isn't many). Recently had a hell of a time finding out how to get a Sahagin key to even do the fight for Impulse Drive, ended up asking a 75 JP drg (think he was an importer, only spoke limited english). Otherwise there is 2 75 DRG on my server (Japanese), about 3 or 4 71-73 jp drg, a 72 NA DRG and me. I don't speak japanese so..limited source of info.

The NA DRG told me it did around 400 damage to Serket if I recall and did 300-400 damage usually in an exp setting, he has a Gae Bolg and basically the same equipment I do, except slightly higher ATK from a few pieces of the Tiger set. Thats about all I know. Since Wheeling Thrust averages 150-200 damage in exp parties, its an improvement and gives slight versatility in who you can party with.

I'd take the WHM's word too simply because there might not be enough people to ask. Everyone I know who is 75 now never grouped with a DRG to get there.

[Lan'Urk]

I personally dont think DRG should be "fixed", the only thing that would be nice was adding more equipment, which SE has done in the past, and will probably do in the future. I think that SE never intended to make DRG deal as much damage as a DRK and that why i think they will never "fix" it, because there is nothing broken to begin with, and i will explain why.

DRG NIN and SAM are expansion jobs, meaning they were added later on. So of course they made those jobs difficulty lvl quite higher than the standard ones, to exactly add more to game content. I think a lot of people seeking "balance" among jobs, often overlook this fact. In my vision DRGs were made tougher to play intentionally, so it would add a new difficulty lvl to some hardcore players who think lvling DRK is too easy (which can be true). I wont deny DRGs get easely outdamaged by a DRK, but if you are looking for number and flashy WSs by all means go DRK. but if you seek a challange, where you will have to be on top of your game, then DRG is for you. Now saying a DRG sucks just because it deals less damage is entirely superficial and disrespectful.

I think what people should try to understand is, the true nature of the DRG job. Which in my opinion isnt dealing a lot of damage, and being admired by how much ass you kick, but by going through all this hardship and learning a lot with it. because to lvl DRG to end game will require a lot more work and dedication than other jobs... and thats also true for SAM and NIN.

Well thats my opinion, people may agree or disagree, its perfecly fine, i would just like to DRGs and DRG bashers look at my views and at least try to understand it... it might open your eyes, or might not...

~Lanurk

[JexIntrepid]

i have to agree on some part with your comment. Lan'Urk

Personally i truly don't think Dragoons were ever meant to deal as much dmg as Dark Knights. Yeah you Kain fanboys might be disappointed, but honestly your wyvern makes up for alot.

Endgame you can easily keep your wyvern alive with AF, and now this new ability, and secondly you do DEAL DAMAGE. Just not as much as drk or rng.

Hey samurai also have that problem, they stray off the list of Dmg Dealers like you.

Well, i realize now that Drg's weren't really meant to be just dmg dealers. Reason being that there are different purposes to your wyvern when you sub a different sub. I've mentioned this before, but there's so many drg/wars that i really think it wasn't meant to be the main sub for drg's. Even with war subbed, you don't fit the role of a drk. With /drk you might get a bit more potent with dmg-wise.

I've seen some dragoons try out some other subjobs, which i could tell were encouraged by S-E cuz of the multipurpose wyvern, the defensive wyvern, etc. Some Drg/whm's go about, and they would easily tell you how well they aid in the pt's they group with. They can deal dmg but are not just limited to that. Or Drg/rdm, or Drg/drk, Drg/sam (yeah i know main goal is tp here, but that's not always bad, you can set up renkei, and with high jump+jump + meditate you can create another SC right after your first 100% ws.) There are options out there that i really don't think alot of dragoons are trying because all they feel is their purpose in life is to = damage of Drk.
Not to burst your bubble but that's kinda silly as. if you can tell that a drk doesn't get anymore attack ups, (Drk's get 3) you guys have 1 accuracy trait, etc.

Only problem i feel is that there's not too many high endgame fly-type mob, which would probably make Drg's much more useful and pt-friendly (same way monks are for bones, or drk's are for arcana).

S-E should fix this, i feel for the most part. And this IS a new expansion job, they know it still needs work, and i feel that's why they don't bring too many jobs at once, cuz they'd spend endless hrs hearing about how 6 jobs aren't balanced etc. I pretty much feel Dragoons COULD use a bit more acc up traits at later lvls, make it a viable combo for samurai (who struggle with accuracy), or give some enhancements to the wyvern (perhaps at some point make it do 4/5 of your normal dmg so if you keep it alive you're dmg + wyvern + your ws + wyvern ws come closer to the other dmg dealers). S-E knows that NIN, SAM, and DRG may need some help, and that's why i feel they're starting to help them out. Drk's had to go through alot too and it didn't go as fast as some of you may think, i'm sure Drgs, Sams, and Nins will be satisfied (as drk's, pld's etc) soon enough, be patient though.

[Weezingpipes]

DRG NIN and SAM are expansion jobs, meaning they were added later on. So of course they made those jobs difficulty lvl quite higher than the standard ones, to exactly add more to game content. I think a lot of people seeking "balance" among jobs, often overlook this fact. In my vision DRGs were made tougher to play intentionally, so it would add a new difficulty lvl to some hardcore players who think lvling DRK is too easy (which can be true). I wont deny DRGs get easely outdamaged by a DRK, but if you are looking for number and flashy WSs by all means go DRK. but if you seek a challange, where you will have to be on top of your game, then DRG is for you. Now saying a DRG sucks just because it deals less damage is entirely superficial and disrespectful.

OH lord, I wanna gouge my eyes out reading that. The only thing thats more challenging about those jobs is completing the job quests. If you think challenging means "hey lets make some glaringly broken jobs that do shit ass damage and because of this, offer little to a party", you obviously understand little about the game. All of the above jobs are broken in some way, 2 of which broken in the negative sense, the other not..

But I see now. "Challenging" = "lazy and lacking foresight in design".

[fuz]

I have to agree with wheezing... It is not impossible to make drg balanced with an equal value as drk. Some changes realtive to the job, or the game world, or even just equipment could greatly increase the usefullness of a drg, but S-E just doesn't do anything. Drg is not a complicated class with many abilities like nin.

[Lan'Urk]

Im sorry, but i dont think we will ever agree in this point... I have said before, and I will repeat this... i dont think DRG was even meant to deal as much damage as a DRK, I think DRG was designed to be an alternative for players that think that DRK is not hard enough (which there are plenty out there). as far a balance among classes I think, there is balance you guys are just looking in the wrong place... I think the balace is exactly in the different difficulty lvl, some players want to have all the odds on their side, some players dont... thats what I think SE meant on the creation of the DRGs... to challange players to have a tougher time and grow with the difficulty... and saying that the difficulty on those expansion jobs is just on the quest is EXTREMELY superficial, because Its so evident... just compare PLD with Blink tanking, so much harder, and you have a lot more room for error...

and i 100% disagree that "Challanging"="lazy and lack of foresight in design"... i think challanging=giving players more problems to overcome with skill... if all games were a walk in the park it would be interesting for just a short period of time...


I also think that saying that those jobs are so "easy" to play, you seem to not understand the game fully... since playing the game is not only know when to place your job skills, but know where to go, with what kind of set up, and having general knowledge of the system itself. If a DRG has all that skill and practice (which most have to get past the 60+ barrier) they can perform just as well as a DRK (which allows a lot more room for slacking and letting your Party do all the research and learning while you just hit stuff).

Thats why I think DRGs deserve a lot more respect than they are getting right now... for them to succeed require a lot more work and dedication, but that doesnt mean they all "suck". By saying that you are implying that there is no player skill in factor in this game, which could not be any more wrong.

Of course you can have your opinion and I respect it, im just trying to inform how I dont think DRG will ever be "fixed"(as in my opinion, not saying that its a fact... i might be wrong, or i might be right... i dont know), because there is a very good reason for them to be the way they are.

~Lanurk