Dragoon vs. Samurai

[bones111]

I am having trouble deciding what main job I want. Its either going to be the samurai or the dragoon. Could you guys help me by providing the pros and cons for each job. And is one class wanted more than the other in a PT? Any and all info will be greatly appreciated

[Khasra]

There is a lot of information on dragoons and samurai in this forum, especially since DRG/SAM seems to be a very viable combination. You should also check the samurai forum, there is a lot of information there. I won't repeat it because it's a lot of material and is already posted, and as always repeating information can lead to errors.

As Storml2age said in the drg vs. thf thread, you could consider being both by taking DRG/SAM. It's a viable combo as the DRG with pentathrust and the SAM TP-saving/storing ability is extremely powerful.

[Meinrad]

both are melee jobs although i hear sam can tank fairly well. sam is basically a monk with a sword who has resistance to demons and is the TP master. the main job fo both sam and drg is to dish out damage.
sam does it through weapon skills. they get TP boosting abilities and crazy WSs.
drg does it through a combination of high attack, added hits through jumps, and the constant attack help from their pet wyvern. a drg's main weapon, spear, is a lethal weapon with great weapon skills. drg when used right dishes out the most melee dmg out of all of the jobs.
to tell you the truth utilizing both jobs is truly lethal. a drg/sam gives added hp and def to drg as well as extra TP for the wonderful WSs. sam/drg is a melee master in my opinion. a samurai's B weapon is a spear which makes the combo of sam/drg ever the more lethal. you get the TP craziness and added mellee attacks along with having good attack power. people wil lsya never to sub drg because you dont get your wyvern but the main of SAM can mroe than make up for it.
i myself am gonna toy with the two combos in retail and see which i liek better.

[struck]

Disclaimer:
The following is my opinion based on 65+ days play time. Please take this with a grain of salt. Also please feel free to express your opinions upon reading this.

Dragoon/Samurai.
When you use this job combination it sends people the message you want to use Penta Thrust A LOT. While that's great for a PT that wants to free wheel and let a Warrior, Monk and or Thief just have at it. This just doesn?ft work in the games current build. You need to build your Dragoon around 2 jobs, Thief and Paladin. Why would these guys want you letting loose Penta Thrust after Penta Thrust disrupting the delicate hate balance they're creating? Penta Thrust doesn't connect to Dancing Edge. Skewer connects to Dancing Edge. So get used to using it. I only got free Penta Thrust rights a few times since getting it at 49 and all those PT's were skint. On the way to 60 all anyone would ask for is Double Thrust -> Viper Bite, PLD solo. Seeing the theme here? It's not how hot your job is on paper. It?fs how it works in the group. Dragoon/Samurai isn't 100% group friendly. So what's the job combo if you really want to push your Dragoon through the 60?fs you ask? Thief!

It works like this. A party begins to take shape they have their choice of all the melee jobs. They already aren't looking for a Dragoon. So lets pretend you're the only guy around. They smartly pick up a Warrior or a Paladin. Now they need a second melee. They see a Drg/Sam and a Drg/Thf. They'll pick the Drg/Thf because even though the thief abilities have been nerfed with Thiefs abilities you can really push damage with yokodama, and fuidama and keep the monster firmly on the tank. There are 4 level 70 dragoons on rag, 3 subbed Thief the whole way up. The other subbed Warrior. Sam sub just adds you to the pool of high damage jobs who want to just use weapon skills over and over. Subbing Thief however adds you to the "If we can?ft find a Thief lets get someone who has Thief sub", invite list. Thief and Dragoon are a team a team you run the risk of making it seem like you don't want to be a part of by subbing Sam.

Do I have Thief sub to put onto my Dragoon? Nope. Do I kick myself everyday because I don?ft? Yep. For the same reasons Drk/Thf works out so well Drg/Thf works. Samurai sub isn't as godly as it seems trust me I'm there and I'm not seeing it.

Samurai/Dragoon.
This isn?ft an option.

With Warrior sub at 60 you get the following: Taunt, Berserk, Defender, Defense up, Double Attack and Attack up.

With Dragoon sub job at 60 you get the following: Enchant Circle, Jump, Attack Power up, Dragon Killer, Acc Up.

Tell me which one you'd rather have in your PT? Unless you?fre going after the mission 6 dragon a lot of the Dragoon abilities are simply worthless for a melee which as you said yourself is good at tanking. Take away taunt if something goes wrong in the PT you?fre helpless. Don?ft mistake the good use of Dragoon/Samurai as something that is interchangeable because it?fs not. Samurai already has its problems after 60.. You don?ft want to make things worse with a silly subjob do you?

Which is really the best way to go.. Warrior, Samurai, and Thief all have their place. Level up all three and you'll really shine.

[Awntawn]

I'd always thought the advantage of DRG/SAM was that they could penta on a regular basis and then always be ready to renkei w/ THF when THF was ready, isn't that the idea revolving around the SAM sub? Because I know for one thing that WAR sub's dual swing and berserk will let you push out more damage overall if you're just using your main WS over and over, but SAM sub is to let you recover and get back into that loop because the WS compatible with THF kind of throws it out of balance due to low TP return of that WS. Parties shouldn't mind that much when you take the target every now and then, especially since you have super jump. IMO, with a THF in the PT you're alotted that much more freedom to deal damage before worrying about getting hurt, and that you should exploit that freedom as deep as you can :D

[struck]

Thief isn't always ready. If the Thief wants to sub Sam too then yeah everyone can have a renkei blast. But with Jumps a Thief is never ready before me.

[Awntawn]

Exactly which is why you penta a few times inbetween renkei right?

[struck]

The best possible situation for a Drg/Sam is when you are fighting a monster with low evade. Your warrior has sam sub and your thief has sam sub. This way your Skewers 3 hits can be paired to the thiefs Dancing Edge. Then you could maybe use Penta Thrusts when the thief isn't ready. You have to know when to do it and when not to. There is no gold standard of when to do it. If you try to do it too often you'll find you don't get a lot of repeat invites. I?fd rather be in renkei where there is MB damage rather than boost my ego with a meaningless Penta Thrust every so often.

[Awntawn]

I've had bad experiences with THF/SAM

I feel it's OK to just go as you like, as long as the THF never has to wait for you for renkei... :/ Damn cocky bastards lol

[Rent-A-Hamster]

I'm not level 60 yet, so I haven't been able to sub samurai yet, but here's my thoughts about DRG/SAM:

First of all, doesn't pentathrust connect with dancing edge? It's not ˜p‹È though. The attributes for dancing edge are ?Ø’f and?@ày—ô, right? Doesn't that mean you can do penta > (you use samurai's meditation ability) > thief does dancing edge (Lv 1 ày—ô effect) > you penta again (Lv 2 ?d—Í effect)? Granted, ˜p‹È renkei is the most popular right now, much more than ?d—Í, but with the latter you could MB stone (bleh) or some dark magic like drain or asp.

If you want the ˜p‹È effect, you could do pentathrust > meditation >skewer > dancing edge, right? The melee configuration I want to try out, however is WAR/SAM + DRG/SAM + THF/NINorWAR. That way, we could do:

(WAR) shield break by himself > (WAR) meditation > (WAR) raging rush > (DRG) penta (Žû?k effect) > (DRG) meditation > (DRG) skewer (ŠÑ’Ê effect) > (THF) dancing edge (˜p‹È effect)

Much of this all mostly speculation right now, though. Struck's comments have made me rethink the value of samurai sub a little more :sweat:

I think a pretty good description of the pros and cons of war and sam subs can be found here: http://www.my-drug.com/ffxi_drg/sapo.htm

It's in Japanese, though. If anyone wants a translation, I guess I could do it later.

Another discussion of WAR vs SAM sub can be found on this thread here: http://jbbs.shitaraba.com/game/1578/...064483135.html

Also Japanese. Don't ask for any translations of that monster thread.

[Bushido]

Just a question about DRG/SAMs... doesn't having Sam as sub also give you the ability Heart Eye? That move where you automatically dodge the next attack?

Because sure, Pentathrust gets you a lot of hate, and DRG/SAMs aren't tanks... but shouldn't the fact that they get both Heart Eye and Super Jump make them evade machines?

And Struck, why can't a DRG/SAM in a high level that wants to manage hate just keep Pentathrust->SuperJumping? Does it have to do with Super Jump recharge time?

Thanks!

~ 'Shido