A newbie to melee classes

[Celeal]

Re: A newbie to melee classes

On the other hand, Hasso and Seigan from /SAM penalize spell recast timer. Stun, Drain, Drain II, Drain Spikes, Absorb-TP, Absorb-ACC, Aspir, etc... are great stuff that comes with DRK, besides raw damage.

[ShadowHolyFlyingDragon]

Re: A newbie to melee classes

Do all of what? Pop two JAs and a spell?

Upon inspection, /SAM does beat /WAR in terms of max damage potential.

/WAR offers
*Double Attack full time (10% DoT and TP gain speed)
*Berserk 3/5ths of the time (+25% Attack)
*Defender for when things get ugly.

/SAM offers
*Hasso full time (+10% Haste = +11-13% DPS and TP gain speed | +10 Accuracy = +5% DPS and TP gain speed | +5 STR = +1 DMG and +4 Attack)
*Store TP II - this ensures you shave off a hit needed to 100 TP. With a 528 delay Scythe, this means going from 6 hits to 5 hits for 100 TP if your WS lands. That's a 20% increase in WS frequency.
*Meditate every 3 minutes.

I'm doubting that a DRK/SAM could use its max potential with a NIN tank though. The NIN would have to be whipping out a lot of damage, and that's not something you can rely on any more than you can expect your PLDs not to be retards and carry Haubergeons and Sushi.

Look, some of the time, people suck at PLD and tanking. People suck at NIN and tanking. Sometimes when someone builds a TP burn-esque party and use two SAMS and everyone subs NIN, the SAMs won't tank right with Hasso.

I'll add even further onto that. The SELRWSopottomuses that subbed WAR back in the day made DRK look really stupid to the general populace and so a stigma formed. Then suddenly, people would invite a DRK to party and ban the DRK from using Souleater. I can't tell you how many parties I've joined where the DRK just stood like a big moron going missmissmisshitmissstunGUILLOTINE 230dmg.

And this was all because the WHM and Healers would freak out when a DRK suddenly went to orange or red. It slowed down XP gain, pissed off the healers, which annoys the rest of the pt, cuz they had to wait their asses around getting that party for 3 hours to begin with.

I mean, I don't know what universe you live in, but it's not always easy to get pts together that work well on a consistent basis, let alone ask people to coordinate a situation to coop together in party. Most of the time, people want to mindlessly spam. I can't fault them. It's their game play. But a good amount of time, you can't get ppl to coop with you. Maybe you're able to over in Candyland.

Thus, why I said the only coolest way to play DRK is to sub /NIN. Cuz, having the ability to tank your own SoulEater is the perfect marriage of job abilities without having to rely on some putz to voke or cover you.


'Course, I agree with you also; you're going to be in those sweet situations where everyone knows what the fck their doing and bam, you get to sub /WAR and do big numbers. Though, I remember testing it and i was doing maybe a couple hundred damage more which didn't outweight the cons to me of having the paper defense of Berserk and Last Resort. But HAY ur doing BEEGDAMAJ!


The funnest time I had with DRK was in the 60's when I had most of my best skillset at my disposal.

It was just a freaking blast.

Later, when you hit LV70 and /SAM really comes into play, you now have Meditate, giving you the potential to do 3 WS'es in a row.

But the great thing about /SAM is you get a 5 hit TP set up. You're constantly in a process of busting out WS'es. It's a really great thing.

[Armando]

Re: A newbie to melee classes

I'm not saying most PLDs (or, well, people in general) aren't retards. I'm saying even retards can pop Sentinel. This isn't rocket science.

Party is forming.
"Hay PLD guy, could you use Sentinel + Provoke when I use Souleater?"
Outcome 1: "Sure."
Sub /SAM or /WAR.
Outcome 2: "No thx."
Proceed to take a pot shot at his skills, some underhanded comment like "Guess you won't be tanking through Souleater. /NIN it is." If he doesn't get offended, go /NIN. If he gets offended and wants to prove what little tanking e-peenery one can have just to one-up you, you can probably go /SAM.

Conclusion: It's possible to figure out if your tank is a retard before you even leave town. Who'd have thought?

[ItazuraNhomango]

Re: A newbie to melee classes

Sentinel won't necessarily keep the DRK from getting pummeled; if the DRK is well geared, even a Sentinel + Provoke won't be able to hold the critter from the kind of damage output a full length Souleater can add especially if there is a Guillotine at the start of the SE. At least, not for long; while the Provoke spike VE with Sentinel is a lot more enmity than SE's 1300, it will decay while the DRK continue to gain huge amount of VE and CE with every hit. (Coordinating with DRK so Sentinel + Provoke + Flash are all up before SE is used? I suppose it's possible...)

On the other hand, you have the idiots who use Berserk, Last Resort, and Souleater all in 2.5 seconds and follow up a Guillotine... It's best to just let those die.

From my experience, the majority of Souleater full-time DRKs didn't seem to bother to check if healers (and PLD) have MP, and wouldn't click off SE until deep in red HP (if at all), and about half of the "buff my WS" DRKs tend to combine Last Resort with Souleater whenever they can in exp parties--then use Stun when the critter turn on them.

The two populations can overlap at times, too.

[Armando]

Re: A newbie to melee classes

The DRK's hate will be decaying at the same rate as the PLD's, so saying that the PLD's hate will decay while the DRK's rises is misleading.

At Level 60, vs a Lv.68 IT target, the DRK would have to do at least 700 damage to topple the PLD's hate lead from Sentinel + Provoke + Flash, assuming the DRK was already tied for hate (which shouldn't be the case; the DRK should be close but not literally tied.) If the PLD tosses the DRK a Cure III to help recover from Souleater while Sentinel is active, that's another 300 points of damage the DRK has to do. The window could be extended further with a WS but I wouldn't expect THAT much out of a pick-up PLD.

It'll take time for the DRK to cross the line. By the time he does, he'll have put a very large dent on the mob all by himself, and the two-three DDs should have done a reasonable amount of damage to the mob as well. If the mob hasn't dropped dead yet somehow, all it takes is Cover.

The idea has every bit as much merit as the DRK going /NIN. /NIN buys 6 attack rounds. The PLD should be able to buy that much time too (assuming he agreed to cooperate.) More if it's a good one but let's not get carried away here.

[ItazuraNhomango]

Re: A newbie to melee classes

Hmm. I'd like to think of myself as not that bad of a PLD, but against well geared DRK at Lv.70 or 72, Sentinel + Provoke + Flash bought about 20 seconds after Souleater+Guillotine if SE is left on after. (At Lv.75 on /NIN, Sentinel + Flash certainly didn't do much vs. SE+Guillotine in merit parties. lol.)

*shrug* It's been a long time, though; memory could be faulty. In any case, it's a great idea to remind PLDs that they should save Sentinel for when the DRK uses Souleater. Unless they need it for an early WAR Rampage/Raging Rush, a SAM going SC back to back, etc.

Or, try staff the rest of the DD slots with BST/NIN's with jug pets--they are trouble free, so the PLD can focus on keeping the DRK alive.

[Armando]

Re: A newbie to melee classes

I'd like to think of myself as not that bad of a PLD, but against well geared DRK at Lv.70 or 72, Sentinel + Provoke + Flash bought about 20 seconds after Souleater+Guillotine if SE is left on after.

That's almost 6 attack rounds, so yeah. When I said a "good Paladin" can buy more time, I meant taking additional measures (e.g. applying Cover, or having a WS ready to use during Sentinel.)

Hell just the fact that you held it for 20 seconds competing not just against the Souleater damage but also a WS is pretty significant.

[ItazuraNhomango]

Re: A newbie to melee classes

Well, ideally, locking down the monster for a full minute to let DRK completely utilize SE would be better (if the curing resources allow it--the perfect use of Souleater is to convert MP into damage output anyway). Just that after that first 20 seconds, Provoke and Flash may not turn the critter back. Cover is actually fairly short in duration, and most DDs don't swing behind me, forcing me to waste precious time trying to squeeze between the monster and them.

* * *

Note to DRKs and other DDs; ducking behind a PLD is a great way to let him know that you may need Cover or other help soon. PLD gets Cover at Lv.35; enjoy.

[Armando]

Re: A newbie to melee classes

Cover duration isn't that long, but it's still an extra 15 seconds (and in this situation you already have knowledge that the mob will turn to the DRK eventually beforehand, so you can position pre-emptively.) By that point you should have both Provoke and Flash back, and Flash will buy another 12 secs.

[JoetheAwesome]

Re: A newbie to melee classes

Well, I guess this deserves an update. Currently I am level 53, and my current gear as follows:
Main: Barbarian's Scythe
Offhand: Dex+1 Grip(forgot name)
Ranged: Thug's Zamborak +various bolts
Head: Walkure Mask
Neck: Spike Necklace
Ears: Beetle earring, Tortoise earring
Rings: Woodsman ring + Ecphoria earring
Hands: Royal Knights Mufflers
Waist: Life belt
Legs: Iron Ram Breeches
Feet: Mythril boots

I've only gotten level syncs parties from 45-48 so my skills are a little under the cap. Any good places to fov at that level to regain those levels? Also, tried out besieged but couldn't hit a single thing, but ti did prove useful for leveling up my magic skills.

Another question, a little off topic, where should I begin expecting to party in the +50's, I've seen a few parties 56ish in the thickets area outside Whitegate and I'm guessing pretty much everything after that will be in the aht urghan areas for that nifty sanction bonus.

[ItazuraNhomango]

Re: A newbie to melee classes

Camp sites: Campsitarus-- The guide to FFXI xp camps! ^^

I don't know much about DRK gears, but if you are hoping to land status bolts (such as Acid Bolt or Bloody Bolt), you should macro in range accuracy gear. Lot's of them--DRK's Marksmanship skill is pretty abysmal, IIRC. If you are only pulling with the crossbow, er, not quite as important.

Have you tried using sushi (Squid or Bream) in Besieged? You may still be too low to hit anything, though. Try to get your LS to form a skill up party with you instead.

* * *

Incidentally, I just had possibly the best exp level DRK ever last week in a Caedarva Mire party fighting Imps and Jnun. That cat managed to stun about a third of the Abrasive/Deafening Tantara and the majority of the -ga nukes, while taking almost no damage thanks to Utsusemi.

Was the player an ultra damaging DD? No, didn't have have a Haubergeon (was using Scorpion Harness)--the reason I call that DRK awesome is because there is really nothing that can improve a typical party's kill speed more on Imps than to stun Abrasive Tantara, and few things spare the lone healer in the back more headaches than to stun the Deafening Tantara.

Dark Knight really is one DD job that deserves to be played with finesse.

[ShadowHolyFlyingDragon]

Re: A newbie to melee classes

Well, I guess this deserves an update. Currently I am level 53, and my current gear as follows:
Main: Barbarian's Scythe
Offhand: Dex+1 Grip(forgot name)
Ranged: Thug's Zamborak +various bolts
Head: Walkure Mask
Neck: Spike Necklace
Ears: Beetle earring, Tortoise earring
Rings: Woodsman ring + Ecphoria earring
Hands: Royal Knights Mufflers
Waist: Life belt
Legs: Iron Ram Breeches
Feet: Mythril boots

Good, decent gear if you're on a budget. The Luisant Gear is a really a god-send and can last you for many levels if you have the ability to obtain any of it; it's rather expensive, mostly in the 100-300k range depending on server. However, it will last you on several other jobs if you play them, like WAR & SAM, so you can definitely get your milage out of them. Otherwise, the LV55 Akinji Gear can help fill in the gaps where necessary. Try to get ahold of Royal Knight Breeches as soon as you can; they're LV55. Those lasted me well into LV70; STR+2 DEX+2 Att+3. Fourth Gauntlets at LV55 give you +5 Acc. Don't miss out on those. You basically want to shoot for Acc->Att->Str/Dex.

However, if I may make a suggestion, though you probably don't have very many levels left until 60, but Great Axe / Sturmwind is your best friend until LV60. And actually, Rampage at 56 with Axes is really your friend from 56-60 because it gives you an alternative of getting 5 hits instead of using your scythe. If you have the opportunity to use G.Axe or Axe, try to do so if you're skills are leveled. Otherwise, if you're so underpar just stick with your scythe. I remember doing some amazing damage in the 50's on those skills alone; it was kind of a sweet spot. You'll need to eat Sushi to use it effectively.

Try you're best to go with a haste/att/acc build + sushi to TP in and change out equipment for WS; and during WS, go with STR/Att. Guillotine is a 4 hit WS and you really want to get your acc to a point you'll connect all 4 hits. I personally went with eating meat and with a STR/ATT build but I could only do that because I was staticed with a BRD. I fit in acc where needed but was able to pull off some amazing numbers. Those days were a blast.

I've only gotten level syncs parties from 45-48 so my skills are a little under the cap. Any good places to fov at that level to regain those levels? Also, tried out besieged but couldn't hit a single thing, but ti did prove useful for leveling up my magic skills.

If you can handle the pressure of fighting a Cactuar, go to Western Altepa Desert and do page 3 FOV for 10 Beetles, 1 Cactaur. I believe I got my skills up to 170 here while doing this and looking for group. However, you'll probably need to bring a friend or a healer to help you deal with the Cactuar fight. That, or a healing NPC. You're goal would be to get 300% tp before fighting the thing really and trying to zerg it as fast as possible. There's other things you can work on probably; this one I know off-hand.

Another question, a little off topic, where should I begin expecting to party in the +50's, I've seen a few parties 56ish in the thickets area outside Whitegate and I'm guessing pretty much everything after that will be in the aht urghan areas for that nifty sanction bonus.

Technically speaking, LV54 and after, until about LV67, you will be fighting Colibri. ..... and nothing else. You might get lucky and do a few parties at 58-62 against Puk's or Crawlers, but Bird Parties will be your big fast xp gain. I myself would much rather prefer fighting Marsh Murre's from 55-60 over at Nashmau, either the east or west exits, but then you'd have to take a boat or walk thru Nyzul to get there. Beats losing TP and Food in battle though. 67+ will be alot of level syncs at 67-69 against ur good ole Imp's and Jnuns, and the occasional Spongilla Fly.

Incidentally, I just had possibly the best exp level DRK ever last week in a Caedarva Mire party fighting Imps and Jnun. That cat managed to stun about a third of the Abrasive/Deafening Tantara and the majority of the -ga nukes, while taking almost no damage thanks to Utsusemi.

Was the player an ultra damaging DD? No, didn't have have a Haubergeon (was using Scorpion Harness)--the reason I call that DRK awesome is because there is really nothing that can improve a typical party's kill speed more on Imps than to stun Abrasive Tantara, and few things spare the lone healer in the back more headaches than to stun the Deafening Tantara.

Dark Knight really is one DD job that deserves to be played with finesse.

As IoI mentioned here, when you get to your IMP parties, do your best to learn to start stunning the Imp's TP moves Abrasive Tantra and Deafening Tantra. Since you're DRK, you have access to Stun and Weaponbash. Learn to time yourself to the Imp using these abilites and you will save your party -alot- of heartache and even get yourself a couple of really great compliments. I know I did when I played.