Is there such a thing as TOO MUCH Acc?

[EternalMalachi]

I ask because I keep finding myself drawn to increasing Acc and to a lesser extent Atk, over Str and Dex. I think it has to do with Scythe being a slower weapon, I'm just more sensitive to missing. Two misses in a row makes me feel all gimp inside. -,-'

So, am I hurting myself considerably by not focusing more on raising other stats?
58 Galka Drk, by the by.

[Mog]

Re: Is there such a thing as TOO MUCH Acc?

I ask because I keep finding myself drawn to increasing Acc and to a lesser extent Atk, over Str and Dex. I think it has to do with Scythe being a slower weapon, I'm just more sensitive to missing. Two misses in a row makes me feel all gimp inside. -,-'

So, am I hurting myself considerably by not focusing more on raising other stats?
58 Galka Drk, by the by.

You're a dark knight. Dark knights have low accuracy. You need accuracy...especially when leveling up. When you hit 75, it's a different story.

[Armando]

Re: Is there such a thing as TOO MUCH Acc?

Dark knights have low accuracy.

This isn't 2004. Don't post that ever again D:

In any case, no, there IS a hit rate cap (95%) but you'll seldom ever reach it in EXP 'til 75 unless you have a BRD or COR while you eat sushi with Acc gear. Accuracy is the most important stat other than Haste for any melee. Hitting harder doesn't let you WS more often, but hitting more often does. Every 2 Acc adds 1% to your hit rate.

Just don't do silly things like wear a +1 Acc earring instead of a +5 Attack one and you'll be fine.

[MrMageo]

Re: Is there such a thing as TOO MUCH Acc?

Well yes there is. To cap on something like colibri you need 406-410 acc on mamool its about the same. (this is for lvl 75 as I don't recall the 50's to much.)

Hit Rate is 95% as SE likes to have this 5% barrier where something may or may not happen.

So really anything over this is wasted. As 2 ACC = about 1% hitrate you can kind of judge what you need ACC trough either a parse or the /check.


First off to use the /check function

Evaision Seems Low- means your ACC is higher than the targets evasion
Evaision seems high- means your ACC is lower than targets evaision
No comment - means your ACC is even with targets evaision

The problem with using /Check is it does not provide solid numbers except for no comment, which means you have a 75% chance to hit.

Now the ACC breakdown is this. Assuming you are at par with a level 63 mob.

75%- (5*4*.5) = 65%

Against a level 53 mob

75%+ (5*4*.5) = 85%

The level correction is roughly 1 level to 2% hit rate. (or 1lvl = 4 ACC)

so lets assume your current ACC is 337 against a target with 297 evaision. (lvl 63)

337- 297 - (5*4) = 20

20*.5 = 10 +75 = 85% hit rate good time to start eating meat.

Now say you have 277 - 297 - (5*4) = -40

-40*.5 = -20% 55% hit rate.

Essentially the best idea is to try and get your hit rate to the mid 80's and eat meat. Hopefully as minimal as possible.

Say for your DRK/SAM at 75 with 276 + 16 base ACC with 59 DEX

276+16 = 292
200*1 = 200
96*.9 = 86.4
59/2 = 29.5
Hasso = 10

325

against a lvl 81 colibri with 327 evaision

325 - 327 - (6*4) = -26*.5 = -13% hit rate. or a hitrate of 62%

You will need +26 ACC from gear/(or elsewhere) to hit 75 Plus 36 for 80, +46 for 85 when you can effectivley start using meat.

With that ACC rating eating sushi would be too much ACC since I know you will have some woodsmans maybe a PCC, a Hauby etc by the time your 75 so you should be safe.

I wish I knew more details on your level range mobs to get you a clear idea of what you need at that level. (I just know all the lvl 75 stuff for Melee as a RDM.)

Long story short to much ACC can be wasted, but having more is better than not enough if your a wiff master 5000 your not doing anyone any favors.

[EternalMalachi]

Re: Is there such a thing as TOO MUCH Acc?

Thanks for the quick comments. I feel better about my very soon to be purchasing habits. ^.^`

[Malacite]

Re: Is there such a thing as TOO MUCH Acc?

You're coming up on a rather handy little spell called "Absorb-ACC" which should pretty well solve your accuracy issues in tandem with food and gear.


There IS a thing as too much accuracy. When you head out to EXP, check the mob and how often you land hits without piling on tonnes of acc. If you're hitting just fine, it's safe to go with attack gear/food. It's something you really have to play around with until you find that happy medium. but there IS a point (usually 90% and above hit rate) where you should think about adding attack/STR instead of more accuracy.

[MrMageo]

Re: Is there such a thing as TOO MUCH Acc?

Ok I did some browsing and found some evaision numbers for lesser colibri which your probably into or will be getting into.

Lvl 63-65

243-253

Lvl 58 Galka DRK/WAR

Dex: 55
Skill: Scythe/ GSWD 193/193

ACC (55/2)+(193*1) = 220

LVL 63 Colibri

Hit Rate
220-243-(5*4) = -43
-43*.5 = -21.5%
75-21.5 = 53.75

To Cap
95-53.75 = 41.25*2 = 82.5

To Meat
85-53.75 = 31.25*2 = 62.5

LVL 65 Colibri

Hit Rate
220-253 - (4*7) = 61*.5 = -30.5
75-30.5 = 44.5

To Cap

95-44.5 = 50.5*2 = 101

To Meat

85-44.5 = 40.5*2 = 81

So as a /war your looking at needing to find +63 ACC minimum Something Closer to 70 may be in order so you will most likely be aiming for sushi.

ACC with Bream Sushi (+17%)

220*1.17 = 257.4

Hot Rate vs 63 Colibri

257.4 - 243 (5*4) = 5.6*.5 = - 2.8
75-2.8 = 72.2

To cap

95-72.2 = 22.8*2 = 45.6

LVL 65

257.4- 253-(4*7) = 23.6*.5 = -11.8
75-11.8 = 63.2

TO cap

95-63.2 = 31.8*2 = 63.6

So using sushi you will need 44-64 Cap on 63-65 Lesser colibri.

LVL58 Galka DRK/SAM

Dex: 55
Skill: Scythe/GSWD 193/193
Hasso: +10

ACC= (55/2)+(193*1)+10 = 230

Sushi Bonus (Bream Sushi)

230*1.17= 269.1

To Hit 63 Colibri

269- 243 (4*5) = 6*.5 = 3
75+3 = 78

To Cap

95-78 = 17*2 = 34

To Hit 65 Colibri

269-253-(4*7) = 12*.5 = -6

75-6 = 69

To Cap

95-69 = 26*2 = 52

As /SAM you will need 34-52 ACC to hit 95% of the time.

Using your own judgment in these parameters you can reach 85-90% pretty easily, (SH, Life Belt, 2x Woodsman, PCC = +40) I would recomend /SAM for obvious reasons, ACC as /WAR might be harder to come by but is not an impossible feat.

Hope this gives you a better Idea of what to aim for.

[Kitalrez]

Re: Is there such a thing as TOO MUCH Acc?

I disagree with "The King of the Oompah-loompahs" (Great dance, BTW). Yes, there is such a thing as too much ACC. We tend not to realize this, but it's there. The fact that we've been screwing up for so long that screwing up has become the default play style doesn't make it any less of a mistake.

Here's my reasoning:

FFXI is a 2nd Gen MMORPG. The second generation started with Asheron's Call 2 and DAOC, and moved on. I think WoW might be 3rd gen... In any case, the 2nd gen wasn't designed in a vacuum. To understand how we were supposed to work, you have to look back to how things were done in the 1st gen. When first gen games like Everquest, UO, and AC1 came out, they were based on MUDs and Pen and Paper RPGs. As such, they broke the ground for how we do things online. First Gen games were what the creators of FFXI were playing when they came up with the game. If you look at our combat system, equipment, zones, the act of zoning itself, etc. you'll see echos of these games.

In Everquest, which I played for several years, combat worked like this: You have your tank, (and all your tanks tend to have much the same types of gear), your tank has a few abilities, but nothing really major on the level of Provoke. Best we had was "Taunt", which had to be spammed repeatedly in the battle as you played along to maintain hate. So, hate control was rather important if you were DDing. Because of that, it didn't serve you to max out any one stat to dizzying degrees if your tank wasn't geared up to handle that. There, like here, when your tank takes damage, he loses a little bit of his hate from the mob. You had to ride a fine line of damage over time/enmity. It graphed out like a sine wave, which is why you used to see EQ sites referring to "riding the wave". Goal of a DD was to ride that wave just below where the tank would be, that way you did the maximum amount of damage without drawing undue attention to yourself. You'll see that in FFXI in your armor selection for DD, it's basically paper mache compared to the plates of steel a tanking job will be wearing. So, back in EQ, if I was riding high on the wave, it behooved me to swap out certain peices of gear to max other stats, like resistances or regeneration, so that I'd stay below my tank on this wave but still be able to contribute fully.

We butcher that here badly, IMO. To get an idea of what you should be doing, try looking at the storage NPC closely. The stuff he tells you is basically the average equipment for different levels of skill. Pay particular attention to the CP items. Like Royal Knights armor. Royal Knights is the average piece of equipment you should be wearing to do your job if you're a job in that level range. (Iron Musketeer if you're a tanker, etc.) If you have at least Royal Knights gear at 55, then any gear you're swapping in/out, is min/maxing. I say it's the average, because you don't have to do anything but fight battles and rank up to obtain the CP to buy it. No finding NMs, no long quests. Any ordinary player should be able to obtain this.

Now, if you have the average gear on, start looking at other slots and abilities. Buy gear that you can swap in/out as the situation requires. For instance, you're a DRK. Where's your INT/magic dmg gear? Are you all about the scythe or should you be tossing a status drain in there sometimes? Your nukes are kind of weak and best bursted, sure, but your drains are kind of your bread and butter spells. You weaken the mob and strengthen yourself. Put a set of gear in inventory for doing that. When do you use that stuff? Here's how to tell, if at any point in the battle the mob is beating on you as a DD, ask this:

1. Did the mob just crit the tank?
2. Did you just crit the mob or use a WS?
3. Did you just use an ability, like Souleater, or a spell that might turn it?

If the answer to all of these is No, and this happens more than once or twice in a battle, start the count. When the count reaches 5, swap out a piece of gear for another set. You'll have to mess with swapping for a bit to get it right, it takes practice. You're trying to get a feel for the tank, and how he operates. How capably geared/experienced is he? After you hit upon the right setup, you'll be doing the damage you need to do, adding a few extras into the fight, but still riding below the wave where you need to be.

Remember, a good DD knows how to manage his own enmity. A bad DD just blames the tank. If you're any good, you should be able to work with a tank several levels below you, or one in average gear. That guy will still defend better than you, and over time, he will cost your back line mages a lot less in mp. Ending the battle as fast as possible is a good strategy to get chains, but don't do it at the cost of having to rest your healers for several minutes to recover from that one fight.

[Armando]

Re: Is there such a thing as TOO MUCH Acc?

If the answer to all of these is No, and this happens more than once or twice in a battle, start the count. When the count reaches 5, swap out a piece of gear for another set. You'll have to mess with swapping for a bit to get it right, it takes practice. You're trying to get a feel for the tank, and how he operates. How capably geared/experienced is he? After you hit upon the right setup, you'll be doing the damage you need to do, adding a few extras into the fight, but still riding below the wave where you need to be.

Kit, I respect you, but this is just overcomplicating things. A good PLD that isn't some ignorant turtle-only poorly-geared sap will do something about you losing hate within 5 seconds, be it popping Sentinel (from which you have no hopes of ever pulling hate,) Cover (which doesn't care how much hate you have,) or Flash (ditto.) Moreover, swapping out gear will have too limited an impact on your performance in the short term, and you'll just be blinking like a broken traffic light for little to no benefits (and possibly to the WHM's dismay.)

Besides, there isn't a "wave" you can ride in FFXI because everything is a hell of a lot more erratic. You have Provoke and Flash which are on two different-length timers and thus constantly desynchronized. The tank has WS which garner hate, but he may go a whole fight without using it, or he may start a fight with it, or use it towards the middle. You as a DD also have WS which you MUST use at some point or another and which have a different rate of occurrence (and different hate generation capacity) as the tank. And like I said, even if you cross the hate line a PLD has numerous fall-back measures if Provoke is down (Flash, Shield Bash, Sentinel, Rampart, WS, Cure IV.)

IF for some reason you've managed to cement the mob on you despite the PLD's efforts, then turning around to prevent smacking the mob further will do far more for you than taking off DD gear will. Popping Defender is also an option for the /WAR subbers.

EDIT:

If the answer to all of these is No, and this happens more than once or twice in a battle, start the count. When the count reaches 5, swap out a piece of gear for another set. You'll have to mess with swapping for a bit to get it right, it takes practice. You're trying to get a feel for the tank, and how he operates. How capably geared/experienced is he? After you hit upon the right setup, you'll be doing the damage you need to do, adding a few extras into the fight, but still riding below the wave where you need to be.

Last nitpick. DRK can't do magic damage for shit (other than topping out at Tier II nukes, lack of MAB and gear kills them) and INT/MAB don't help Drain. Most they can do is swap in a handful of pieces of +Dark skill at higher levels.

[Celeal]

Re: Is there such a thing as TOO MUCH Acc?

Depends on what mob you are fighting (mob type + level), and what *tools* is available to you, like gear, food, your party, your JA + magic....

If possible, try bring *extra* gear/tool/food with you for adjustment during combat, regardless of exp. parties, campaign, solo, mission, quest... For example, carry sushi and attack food with you, and also both sets of gear for those food.

And yes, there is such thing as too much accuracy ---- a DRK who got KO-ed by the mob cannot do anything, or MP-sink is not good either. Have fun while searching for the happy medium ^^!

[LyonheartLakshmi]

Re: Is there such a thing as TOO MUCH Acc?

And yes, there is such thing as too much accuracy ---- a DRK who got KO-ed by the mob cannot do anything, or MP-sink is not good either.

Wait... so you're saying DD's should gimp their accuracy intentionally in order to avoid dying? That doesn't sound like a very good approach at all.

[Celeal]

Re: Is there such a thing as TOO MUCH Acc?

Wait... so you're saying DD's should gimp their accuracy intentionally in order to avoid dying? That doesn't sound like a very good approach at all.

No, this is not what I mean.... it is just my way of saying besides acc+ and DoT only, have plans to deal with result of the hate generated by high damage output

[Lmnop]

Re: Is there such a thing as TOO MUCH Acc?

Mageo, nice work but I think you made a mistake. Your acc looks low. You did dex/2 instead of dex*.75, didn't you?

[Yellow Mage]

Re: Is there such a thing as TOO MUCH Acc?

You know, Dark Knights have so much Accuracy at their disposal nowadays (Absorb:ACC was well BEYOND the final nail in the coffin; we're having some hack magician sawing it in half, and then nailing one half back to the other again), it's not even funny. I mean literally: I totally miss "Dark Knights miss" jokes!

[Malacite]

Re: Is there such a thing as TOO MUCH Acc?

Dark Magic is purely affected by skill then?