Drain 2 & Dread Spikes

[tdh]

Re: Drain 2 & Dread Spikes

I don't invite Drk/thfs because I want to prove that Drks are good. When I invite a Drk to a rdm + brd party, I want that Drk to give a good impression. And honestly, the drks that only sub thf never give that impression. I'd like to think that I'm saving that bard from thinking ALL drks suck by not inviting the ones that I know won't keep up. And yes, I feel roughly the same about drgs (I'll invite drg/wars more than I would drk/wars, but i'm less apt to invite a drg/thf than I am a drk/thf). HOWEVER---------------------> with Dread Spikes/ Drain 2, a Drk/War can probably survive just fine these days. And a Drk/thf too, but with Absorb-TP, I still think SA just slows them down.

Now if I DRK ONLY has /THF sub, then they probably aren't worth the invite. Any melee job should have all the needed subjobs available when they need them. As I mentioned, I have WAR, SAM, NIN, and THF all leveled for where my DRK is right now. I even have 5 possible weapons leveled that I could use in the party if the situation called for it. (Axe, Great Axe, Sword, Great Sword, and Scythe.) Any melee should have access to all possible tools should the situation come up.

But to say a DRKs should adapt and sub SAM makes no sense. Have it available? Yes. Out right stop using all other subs? You're kidding right?

Now unless I'm missing something, or you just didn't communicate your point fully, your reasons against DRK/THF haven't been explained. You want a DRK to impress a BRD, but didn't explain how DRK/THF couldn't still do that. Sub'n THF does lower possible damage for just about any job that would usually sub WAR. Berserk makes a huge difference, Double Attack is the greatest melee trait concieved, and the extra STR doesn't hurt either. SAM adds Meditate at Lv.60, 3rd Eye, Hasso, and eventually Seigan. I have no numbers to say /WAR and /SAM are on par, but with Abs-TP /THF can still keep up with a TP partner. Which is what counts since most DRKs aren't going to sub /THF in most TP Burns.

I've gone /THF due to BLU tank, or MNK Skillchain partner so far. (Now that I think about it, both of those instances were the same party.) As /WAR I can't use Berserk because I take too much of a beating, and going /THF reduces my MP spounge nature all while keeping up with my Skillchain partner with no problems.

So if you're building a party, and you see a DRK/THF with /THF ONRY in their comments, it's up to you to decide if that works with your camp and party. But to completely over look them because they're not /SAM is silly and wrong.

I just realized how much I want to party with a Drk+Blu so the Blu can give the Drk Diamondhide.

I'm only Lv.63, but will Dread Spikes drain HP if you don't take any damage? Has anybody tested this out yet?

DRKs beware: Min/maxing below
Drks are now more like RDMs. The higher your max HP at time of casting Dread Spikes, the more effective it will be. This means that Drain II will actually buff your Dread Spikes as higher max HP=higher Dread threshold.
Something that needs tested: If you equip on lots of +HP for the cast, will it set the HP amount in stone at that time? I.e. would you then be able to change out of HP gear into say... dual Astral Rings (just because) but keep the HP limit? I'd assume so since Phalanx figures DR based off of Enhancing magic at time of casting only. And Stoneskin is the same way - Enhancing and MND at casting time only.
If so, then a good DRK will want to carry around some +HP gear for their casts. And of course, they could start their build early just to buff up Souleater.

This is a good question. Another question is does Dark Magic Skill have the same effect as Enhancing Magic does for RDM buffs. Great question - just wish I was Lv.72 to test it! Either way I'm going to get my hands on a Dark Torque and Dark Earring. AF Helm & Dark Staff helped on Too Weak mobs, hopefully adding on Skill will help make up for the Dark Staff effect.

[Tyros]

Re: Drain 2 & Dread Spikes

Instantly when I set up to cast dread spikes, I put in my dark magic macro (buffs to 299 skill) but I don't think it is helping. I will build my hp set today and test, though most things I can kill solo, I won't take enough damage in 1 min to hit cap, but we will see.

[Lmnop]

Re: Drain 2 & Dread Spikes

speculation based off of current game mechanics:

the other Spikes spells use an equation for resist rates. I believe it's Int vs Int entirely (as far as stats go), with likely a very heavy level check. Enhancing Magic skill affects damage for them, I believe... I'm not sure.

Whatever, I have a feeling that Dread Spikes will use current Dark Magic Skill (+INT) to figure resist rate on every impact. There will be no upping damage, since it works more like a skillchain (the maximum damage is decided by something else. Melee hit in this case or the closing WS in the case of SCs. Thus, I think that if you take off your Dark Magic Skill+ gear, you will lower your magic accuracy. If you put it back on, your acc would go up, despite it being the same casting. Example: Rolling Thunder from Ramuh. The en-spell damage that everyone receives is based off of the recipient's Enhancing Magic skill, if I remember right. Thus, everyone hits for the minimum of 1-4 damage.

What I'm getting at is that every swing is a case-by-case basis, so a skill check is required every time.

Meanwhile, I do think that the HP cap of the spell would be decided at time of casting. I guess this is just because all the other defense buffs behave that way.

Tdh, I think I made myself seem like more of an asshole than I am. First off, I will always read my melee's comments. It's the drk/thfs who don't specify that they have other subs that I don't like. Also, I never build parties anymore -- I inherit them. For some reason, I end up with the yellow dot in about 80% of the parties I join. And since I'm usually in a "burn party" of one incarnation or another... Sneak Attack doesn't bade well in those parties. I had a THF recently and he did ok. But that's because he seperated SA and TA. a Drk/thf will not have the opportunity to set up a full SATA position. He can TA WS or he can SA WS. They will choose the extra damage more often than not and get hate. OR, they'll take the fall and TA WS, but then SA is going to waste.

I know that drk/war is superior in DPS, but I also know that it is usually suicide for a DRK. This is why I like drk/sam so much -- 70+, anyway. It doesn't have to bother with SA, it technically has higher survivability than /thf, and it's damage potential is completely implacable. Read: lots of variance. At worst though, I think it could keep up with a /thf.

All of this is great, but this isn't a SJ thread. I will party with /thfs. I just usually rather they were something else.

Btw, I don't like Sam/thfs either. I'm a /thf racist, I guess. Thf main though.

this isn't a SJ thread.

--------------

Unseen benefits of Dread Spikes:

-If you get hit for 600 damage within 30 seconds, you likely just deal an additional 600 damage.
-Unlike Stoneskin and Utsuticipate, you will get TP for being hit. Small benefit, but it's there.

This is great. I love this update.

[Tyros]

Re: Drain 2 & Dread Spikes

Played more with Lesser Colibri tonight. Set up an HP style build out of mostly af and af2. I managed to get 1327 HP with war sub. There were a few times I actually made it to the 663 cap, even when I had already swapped gear. So it definately seems based on your HP at cast.

However, there were a couple times (2-3 at most) that it wore off in less than a minute, but I was at slightly less than cap. It seems that resists still count towards the cap as if they were not resisted.

Example:

Hit for 50, absorb 50, counts as 50 toward cap.

Hit for 50, absorb 25, counts as 50 toward cap.

In each instance that I came out with a slightly decreased return, doubling the resisted absorbs always made up what was missing and put me at 663. No Screen shots to support, but I will try again tomorrow.

[Lmnop]

Re: Drain 2 & Dread Spikes

Nice to know, and good observation.

Should we expect a lot of resists on VT+ mobs? Especially Imps. x.x

[tdh]

Re: Drain 2 & Dread Spikes

That's a good question. Will we get big resists from DRK type mobs, and do we get larger drains from mobs weak to Dark. See if you can find a Light elemental and see what happens with Dread Spikes. I'd like to see a hit for 50dmg, and drain 75dmg. ^^

Lmnop: Thanks for clarifying. From all your previous posts I didn't think you an asshole and was suddenly surprised at your view point.

I agree completely about the TP Burn. A DRK/THF is pretty much a waste in most TP Burns. You're going to SATA someboy who's trying not to main tank? And you're going to be waiting on Job Abilities before using your TP. Other problem is just how much of a hate magnet that DRK/WARs are. How do RNGs survive in parties? Their Acc is pretty much at cap, and even when firing off low level bolts/arrows they're still way out doing most of the party. I stop using 'zerk and still get my food stolen, TP reset, brains pecked out. Sometimes I swear I'm wearing Enmity+ gear.

I like /THF for when you're doing Lv.3 Skillchains, but I like SAM/THF even in TP Burns. Can still escape a fair amount of hits, and I rarely see a SAM/NIN drop the kinda WS's a SAM/THF can. Since it's never an issue of not having TP for them, it just comes down to not getting their eyes plucked from their head. I'm in a semi-static TP Burn/MB Meripo. SAM & MNK make Darkness fairly often giving me something to MB as RDM. Works quite nicely as long as we have a good puller, but it's a pretty good difference between damage from the SAM's WS's when he's NIN or THF. Considering he's SATA Gekko'n on a NIN, we're pretty safe. But that's part of why I rather like SAM/THF.

[Shinhiryu_Kage]

Re: Drain 2 & Dread Spikes

Was in a tp burn pt at LV 65 where we had a sam/thf that had to go.

He was replaced by a mnk/war and after an hour I checked our xp/hr and found it went down by 2k. Not that it's a -bad- thing.

I wish I had Drk 72 so I could run out and test this stuff against VT+ myself..

[Tyros]

Re: Drain 2 & Dread Spikes

One quick note.

Dread spikes is pretty good in dynamis. I didn't have a single resist tonight on them. When being atttacked by a DRK mob with Blood Weapon up, Dread Spikes Nullifies it. You take damage, the mob is healed, but then your spikes heal back the same amount. It's pretty nice.

Drain 2 was getting around 450 from mobs in dynamis. But then I was asked to help with statue control. Threw on my dark staff, Drain 2 a statue. 145.... I did this like 3 times and couldn't break 145 on a statue in double dark weather, dark staff equipped and 299 skill.