when i party with dark knights why dont they use any absorbs ; ;

[Omni]

Re: when i party with dark knights why dont they use any absorbs ; ;

I wish my lawn was Emo so it would cut itself-

LOL, sorry for OT but your sig cracks me up

[Standablaze]

Re: when i party with dark knights why dont they use any absorbs ; ;

My own way of absorbing goes by opening the fight with Absorb STR, then Absorb AGI, and by the time that has been done, I'll get a good 50 back on TP if I time it right and it doesnt resist.

Absorbs do not resist every time or even close. If your dark magic is decent you will get decent absorbs. Mine resist maybe once every 5 uses which is quite considerable.

Reasons for STR and AGI (and sometimes VIT) is because it helps the whole party, absorb dex doesnt, it might help the tank a bit from taking too many criticals and thats it. Every dark should use absorbs, and leave enough mp left over for stun, its quite easy, especially in the new areas were you can get sanction refresh that can only help.

[Praetorian13]

Re: when i party with dark knights why dont they use any absorbs ; ;

I retired my 44 Drk awhile ago, but I would start every fight with an Absorb-MND to make the enfeebs stick better. After that i would use Absorb-VIT/STR( I never had Absorb-DEX...too expensive). A Drk is not just for high damage weapons, they also need to enfeeb and weaken the mob through spells. Anyway thats my opinion.

[Magnus V.]

Re: when i party with dark knights why dont they use any absorbs ; ;

IMO,

Omni:

Heavy resist rates.
Absorb DEX isnt cheap.
If /thf, you need all the TP you can get and casting spells just takes away from your TP gain.
Need to save mp for stun, since RDMs have drk very low on their refresh list, you need to watch your mp. DRKs tend not to step back to get ballad either because that takes up 1 buff spot which can be used for minuet or madigral.

If you are sitting at 100+ TP and waiting on others, sure, try letting one off. However, other melee are usually waiting on drk for TP so wasting time on absorb spells that can have no effect is just not worth it sometimes.

Is completly right... I never use my Absorbs (Unless given a debuff i can counter with my absorbs) as im way to busy stunning and need the MP to stun.. if your dishing out absorbs for 30 + mp a spell with no refresh and no time to kneel youll hit 0 fast...

And if the mob readies AOE and you dont stun, party wont say "Oh its cause you were Absorbing ok, cool" nope more like "Where was stun?"

Yeah, Yeah BLM gets stun and so does BLU and your probably bound to have one... but I just dont trust others to stun effectively.. My secondary Macro set sits on stun so i have quick access and can stun quickly a BLM, BLU are always casting and dont have time...

Then there is the long casting.. thats a swing almost every spell... and with capped Dark i know you still see a pretty regular resist on IT's (Not to sure on > IT, as i gave up on seeing those... most people when i was xping drk wanted IT++)

So the first DRK seemed to do ok in my eyes, only time I throw out absorbs is if we miss alot it just put up defence or cocoon. They really arent spells to be used as debuffs.

[Omni]

Re: when i party with dark knights why dont they use any absorbs ; ;

right.
there is never enough people to stun. more the merrier.

i have yet to see a drk land an absorb tp on an xp mob.

[Aniero]

Re: when i party with dark knights why dont they use any absorbs ; ;

With the Absorb-TP addition I think the dark knights purpose has shifted slightly and I think we have the responsibility of TP control. I think some forget that Absorb-TP lowers the mobs TP as well, so we have to be conscious of TP gain and when the right time to absorb is.

My 2 cents abour Absorb spells is that every DRK should use them. If you're soloing stun or don't have a stun order then I could see how absorb spells could be dangerous but regardless the buffs they give me are noticable and the de-buffs can be extremely useful

[Tyros]

Re: when i party with dark knights why dont they use any absorbs ; ;

i have yet to see a drk land an absorb tp on an xp mob.

I very rarely get resisted when using absorb tp on exp mobs.

But then again it is may be dependent on the mobs you are fighting. Monsters such as Goblins, Imps, and Qutrub are all very Heavily dark resistant. But if we are fighting in the mire, I can always use it on flies.

Perhaps the DRK that you have been playing with don't have their dark magic skill sufficiently leveled. I know that before Absorb TP, there was a 4-5 level period where I just couldn't get my skill to cap, but then again, all I was doing was throwing out stun on gobbie bombs.

[John Doe III]

Re: when i party with dark knights why dont they use any absorbs ; ;

Heavy resist rates.
Absorb DEX isnt cheap.
If /thf, you need all the TP you can get and casting spells just takes away from your TP gain.
Need to save mp for stun, since RDMs have drk very low on their refresh list, you need to watch your mp. DRKs tend not to step back to get ballad either because that takes up 1 buff spot which can be used for minuet or madigral.
If you are sitting at 100+ TP and waiting on others, sure, try letting one off. However, other melee are usually waiting on drk for TP so wasting time on absorb spells that can have no effect is just not worth it sometimes.

Couldn't agree more.

[tdh]

Re: when i party with dark knights why dont they use any absorbs ; ;

With the Absorb-TP addition I think the dark knights purpose has shifted slightly and I think we have the responsibility of TP control. I think some forget that Absorb-TP lowers the mobs TP as well, so we have to be conscious of TP gain and when the right time to absorb is.

My 2 cents abour Absorb spells is that every DRK should use them. If you're soloing stun or don't have a stun order then I could see how absorb spells could be dangerous but regardless the buffs they give me are noticable and the de-buffs can be extremely useful

Only problem here is that even if you pull back 80 to 90% TP from Absorb-TP, it's just a small drop in a very large bucket.

Consider that at the start of the fight you will generally have:

• Dia - Does damage so here's 10% TP
• Melee - 3 to 4 people landing their first hit. DRK alone feeds a mob 14 to 17 TP per hit
• Elemental Debuffs - BLM casts 3 stackable debuffs, and gives the mob 30% TP. (Just dawned on me, do these do initial damage like Bio & Dia. This may be tossed out of consideration after verification.)
• Mob's TP - mob lands 1 hit on the pull, and w/ a PLD, does damage at the start of the fight, so add another 7~20% TP depending on hits and mob's TP build.

So that's 10% from Dia, if there's a BRD who Requiems, add another 10%. PLD hits mob (10%), DRK hits mob (call it on the low side, 15%), WAR/NIN with Axes hits the mob (7~36% depending on DLY & Double attack.), and 3 Elemental Debuffs form the BLM (30%). In the first few moments of the fight, the party has given the mob a combined 79% to 131% if the WAR and DRK Double Attack out and depending on mob accuracy. It's gaining TP far too fast for Absorb-TP to make a whole lot of difference. So say you do pull back 40% TP, and the next volley of attacks goes in. 15% from DRK, 14% from WAR, 10% from BLM nukes and the mob hits the tank and gains 7~10% TP. It's already regained more TP than you stole from it.

That having been said, and getting back to the O.P, I think the change in Absorb spells casting may effect how many we cast.

I've had two EXP Parties since the update, and have come across the following.

1. If I get a poor Absorb-TP return (Like 7% or a full resist) I've only wasted 2 seconds and it doesn't hurt as much.
2. Absorb-AGI now coupled with Absorb-VIT. Helps everybody's accuracy as well as everybody's damage.
3. I can pull with a Ranged Attack, and Absorb-AGI and not be way behind right out of the gates.
4. And I wish Drain and Aspir had shorter casting times. ^^

I even toyed with casting Absorb-STR more often than I usually would have since I had more "time."

[Armando]

Re: when i party with dark knights why dont they use any absorbs ; ;

Minor corrections: Elemental debuffs and Requiems don't land for damage, so those don't count. A WAR/NIN's gonna be giving the mob around 9-10 TP per hit, much like a PLD. A DRK would give about 17-18. Your main point still stands, though, an EXP party practically force-feeds mobs TP by the buckets. A DRK could use Absorb-TP after his own second attack round and get back quite a bit.

Also bear in mind that mobs will never hold TP if their HP is below 20%. That's when Absorb-TP slows down the enemy's progress.

[tdh]

Re: when i party with dark knights why dont they use any absorbs ; ;

I was giving numbers on the low end purposely, so I figured my current Lv.60 Great Sword returns 11.8% TP. So let's just call it 12 for argument's sake, then add the 3% mobs get and call it 15%. And been so long since I leveled WAR, I can't remember what just 1 Axe returned, I just knew it would never be below 4% so I called it 7% after the "mob bonus." So on the very low end of the scale, the mob will still have plenty of TP to blow when it decides it's time to.

Thanks for clarifying Elemental Debuffs and Requiem. I thought Requiem did do initial damage, but wasn't sure about the Elemental Debuffs.

After having partied against Puks so much lately, I'm starting to question the accepted rule of when mob's use their TP. I've seen mobs use TP 3 seconds into the fight, and then follow it up almost immediately with another TP move all before they've lose 50% of their health. But I know that could very well be my perception since I hate ALL of Puk's TP moves. (Zephyr Mantle is the sign of the Devil. AoE Super-Flash would make any DRK cry. Aoe & Directional knock back move is another sign of the Devil.)

[Armando]

Re: when i party with dark knights why dont they use any absorbs ; ;

Eh, well, I don't know I've never seen a mob "break the rules" so far, so I don't know what to say.

[tdh]

Re: when i party with dark knights why dont they use any absorbs ; ;

Does a mob just use it's TP once it hits 300% then? Just seems like some mobs are using TP pretty early on in the fight, and that's what I meant. Maybe I'll have to look up how the AI decides to use it's TP then.

[Caspian]

Re: when i party with dark knights why dont they use any absorbs ; ;

I've seen them break the rules before. I've seen nearly back to back TP moves near the end of the mob's life. There were only three melee I think at that point and couldn't possibly have gotten enough TP for another move in that small amount of time. I don't know how much TP mobs get every time they make a successful strike though, but I doubt its 50% in two hits.
Also, go to Mount Zhayolm during firesday and pull an Eruca. One shot with an arrow and it would immediately use a TP move. Not just once, but every mob I pulled during the fire weather. I've never seen anything listed about it either. Have to check again and see if anyone has noticed and put it on the wiki.

EDIT: Yep, just pulled this off the wiki page:

During fire weather, when the volcano is active, they become much more powerful: they can start with 300% TP, have auto-regen, and Haste.

[Ridgual]

Re: when i party with dark knights why dont they use any absorbs ; ;

From a different view...

As a galka i gotta use my mp wisely, and the pt's most likely expecting that. Abs TP, Stun, Drain, and Aspir are obviously casted every fight (unless mob doesnt give mp on aspir). Since grabbing the Parade Gorget i've been casting Abs AGI at the beginning of the fight, casting my 4 main spells, and even getting an ABS Dex in the mix when i can. Do yourself a favor if your gonna take DRK up, get a parade gorget, and use the spells that help your party the most in your situation. Of course your open to using pretty much any spell you want if your RDM is refreshing you.

Also, as a galka, it seems that RDM are wayyyyyy more leaniant on refreshing me. Ive yet to be in a pt with a RDM where i wasnt refreshed every time i was in need. Maybe it was just a DRK loving RDM...Maybe my spell choices were very positive for the party....or maybe they just pity my pathetic mp... =D


One last thing....even if you dont use every absorb spell in every pt you join...buy them anyways. There is no reason not to have them, because every pt situation is different and you wanna be prepared for anything that you could do positively for the party.