Drk comments from convention

[Wiseman40]

Dark Knight
They notice that Dark Knights seem to forgo their Scythes to use mainly Great Sword. They want to make Scythe more effective so it is more desirable. They also mentioned adding more reasons to use absorb spells by adding effects to them.

So what do you think?

At first I was a little vexed because I prefer greatsword visually (although I also like scythe so it's alright if I end up having to use it), and I didn't really see the point. Lots of drk use scythe. It seems that the WS are fairly desireable as is (at high levels).

Anyway, this can't be bad overall, because they want to make scythe more effective... and I'm for anything that will make drk more effective.

What I really love about the comment is the + to absorb spells. I love absorb spells in concept, but in practice I rarely use them. I'll use drain, aspir and bio almost all the time, but rarely an absorb. If I do use one it is str...

I hope that this news is ushering in a new era... but I'm probably expecting too much.

[Omni]

Re: Drk comments from convention

well, they are most likely talking about from lv. 66 on. before then, scythe vs g.sword doesnt really produce a clear cut winner. i know lots of drk that use scythe all thru 60-66 for guillotine but others use g.sword just for the ability to open distortion. at lower lvls, scythe/g.sword dont really make a difference since most ws are pretty luke warm to begin with.

many drk do use scythe end game for 300tp spiral hell but, the thing with final ws' is that many of them need 300tp to be awesome, such as spiral hell. getting 300 tp can be a pain since thats a pretty long time to build tp off scythe attacks. while spinslash is pretty deadly when combined with fuidama and anywhere past 100tp.

i hope drk get some nifty buffs with absorb spells. they deserve something helpful.

[Karinya]

Re: Drk comments from convention

I think the main problem with Cross Reaper and Spiral Hell is their skillchain attribute. If a DRK is going to skillchain on endgame mobs, it's probably with a SAM (because they always have TP); CR/SH are just redundant when SAMs have Gekko. But Kasha > SATA Spinslash is still good.

That being said, Asuran Fists > SATA CR/SH is quite effective against mobs where Darkness is a suitable SC (e.g. Abraxas); not all exp areas have undead or demon enemies, and HNMs split fairly evenly between Darkness and Light as preferred SC.

But several popular high level exp areas strongly favor Light (KRT, Uleguerand, Bibiki) so it's hardly surprising that DRK wouldn't want to use a weapon whose skillchain properties are geared towards Darkness; and there are few good Gravitation WS to open for a scythe-using DRK (most commonly DRK/THF because of the persistent hate problems of the job). Furthermore, one of them is polearm, and DRG is probably the rarest of all physical DDs.

The frustration of missing a couple times in a row with a high delay weapon may play a part, too - GS tend to have significantly less delay than scythes. No matter what weapon you're using and what gear setup, you will occasionally miss 2-3 times in a row even on VTs, but with a high delay weapon, it's much more annoying (even though it actually happens less times per hour - the more you swing, the more you miss, assuming equal acc).


The bottom line is, there are several factors leading to the commonness of DRK/THF greatsword as a playstyle for DRK at high levels, and it's hard to see how any simple change is going to change that. Introducing more high level exp spots with monsters weak to dark (or ice, water or earth) would help, I guess, but that still leaves a lack of SC openers for darkness even if you want it.

Knowing SE, it's possible that they will decide to combine the two ideas by introducing new scythes with +INT, +Dark Magic Skill, Magic Attack Bonus, +Magic Accuracy, "Enhances effect of Absorb spells" (or Drain, or Aspir), "Enhances Darkness magic" (the property Dark Staff has as a hidden effect), or similar bonuses. I don't know how this would go over in the DRK community though - some people seem to strongly oppose the idea that DRK is a hybrid job that needs to use its magic to be fully effective, so they'd probably reject scythes with magic stats.

[Wiseman40]

Re: Drk comments from convention

I think that SE may be leaning toward changing /thf as the main endgame sub for DRK and SAM, partly because I think it's knocking thief out of its role. Sure, there are some reasons to bring a real thief instead of a drk/thf or a sam/thf, but the latter two seem more powerful.

[little ninja]

Re: Drk comments from convention

absorb spells dont land as much as i ever liked, an besides that. i rarely saw any form of a refresh. an when i got one from a brd it was lead by about 6000 whining tells an /party chat. followed by my " who the f@@# cares, i already have 43 acc + sole sushi.

as for scythe, S.E needs to take the _acc effect they have hidden on all of them.

[Wiseman40]

Re: Drk comments from convention

absorb spells dont land as much as i ever liked, an besides that. i rarely saw any form of a refresh. an when i got one from a brd it was lead by about 6000 whining tells an /party chat. followed by my " who the f@@# cares, i already have 43 acc + sole sushi.

as for scythe, S.E needs to take the _acc effect they have hidden on all of them.

What you're describing here is a serious problem.

If a DRK doesn't use mp to cast spells, they're not really a drk. They're a sub part SAM in my opinion - a melee job that ends skill chains, and that's all... but without the TP a SAM would have... They wouldn't even be a sub par warrior because war can tank...

The bottom line is that DRK needs to be able to use MP, and for that they have to HAVE mp... Since DRK is expected to have TP for skillchains, they can't rest to recover MP because they'll lose that TP. People need to cast refresh on DRKs, or SE needs to give DRK some way of recovering MP without resting.

[little ninja]

Re: Drk comments from convention

yeah wiseman sadly this was a part of the reason why i left drk. you figure i was casting 66-100 mp a right. it only takes a couple of fights to put me below mp. an then i cant use stun, or absorb agi. the 2 biggest spells i used.

an then there was me with 43 acc getting less connected hits vs a sam with around 20acc an a lvl lower then me. throw in the very poor invite rate. just drove me from the job.

[gix]

Re: Drk comments from convention

unless they give scythe a new WS, it will still be inferior to GS

[Sevv]

Re: Drk comments from convention

why dont you aspir for mp depending on mob yes i know all mobs cant be aspired

[Aeni]

Re: Drk comments from convention

I'm not crazy about this news. First of all, I really do favor scythe over great sword anyway. That's because I try to find an excuse to sub war (go get that THF that's LFP!) Scythe has a greater DPS than greatsword with a DRK/WAR and the critical hits are just evil (near 300s on occasion against IT gobs while 'zerked)

However, the problem with what SE is trying to accomplish is that they still do not know why DRKs do not use scythe more often. Changing the way a weapon works will not do anything as far as I'm concerned. It's the job class that needs more attention, with the base stats and all the negative and postive aspects attached to it. SE is still digging their ass trying to pull that golden buddha rabbit that will solve all of the problems for DRKs everywhere. It won't happen.

First of all, DMG rating on two handed weapons don't function the way they should do. A high level WAR was telling me how he is disgusted with how the DMG rating on the great axe means little when a WAR/NIN's one handed axe is owning in critical hits and does more damage per hit than a normal great axe hit and sometimes the critical damage exceeds those of a great axe. I was always of the belief that the DMG rating was not about the base damage that a weapon can deliver, but more of a ceiling for that level of the weapon in question. Apparently, this doesn't work/function the same with each and every weapon (As if the DMG rating should only be used to compare all the weapons within a category, not in cross-category comparisons)

If SE can address that, then they need to look into other areas. For example, how best can you encourage a DRK to not sub THF and use a great sword. Making a scythe better does not necessarily mean the DRK won't sub THF and in fact may only encourage that. It's almost as if SE is saying that it's okay that there should only be DRK/THFs post 60 play. Yet, at the same time, they frown upon WAR/NIN combinations. What gives?

Once SE can figure out how to have DRKs be more flexible with their subjob choice by eliminating known issues of having to do so then SE can go and tinker with things like weapons and absorb spells.

I for one think that SE is pretty stupid that they don't know why a DRK uses great swords a lot.

1. A- Rating on Great Sword which is not significant enough to deter the usage.
2. A++ Weapon Skills, in particular, Spinning Slash with its high damage on 100% TP.
3. Lower delay weapon makes it more favorable for DRK/THF usage.
4. Better weapon skills pre-level 65 which many other melees can easily chain into including Hard Slash, Power Slash, Sickle Moon and Crescent Moon. Even elemental sets like Freeze Bite are better than Scythe's elemental sets. Some of these weapon skills work well with Sneak Attack. Hardly any weapon skill (Except for Slice) on scythe works with Sneak Attack.

I think I might have missed a couple of other reasons. Even with /WAR, a great sword can do more damage with Blood Weapon than Scythe (Because of the lower delay, you'll get more hits in when the 2hr is active)

[little ninja]

Re: Drk comments from convention

aspir is hit or miss. an never really gave back what i used. sometimes i got back around what it took to cast aspir.

[Aeni]

Re: Drk comments from convention

yeah wiseman sadly this was a part of the reason why i left drk. you figure i was casting 66-100 mp a right. it only takes a couple of fights to put me below mp. an then i cant use stun, or absorb agi. the 2 biggest spells i used.

an then there was me with 43 acc getting less connected hits vs a sam with around 20acc an a lvl lower then me. throw in the very poor invite rate. just drove me from the job.

LOL I can empathize. Last week, I pt'd and there was this DRG in my PT. He had about 15 less acc points than I did and was a whole level lower. We both had sole sushi. I was over +45 in acc (would've been over 50 if I had an O-Hat T_T) in equipment.

He never missed (or hardly) against weapons in Moon. I remember in the beginning I was missing ****tons against them. Got to the point where the RDM *stopped* hasting the DRG and only hasted me. Whenever I had 100% TP, DRG had 200% TP ... WTF IS UP WITH THAT?

I doubt if I had scythe that it would've been any better. I'd lose the +5 acc from my Balmung in any case switching weapons...

[Tirrock]

Re: Drk comments from convention

To be fair, DRG get TP very fast. It's possible to get 24+ TP a jump. >_>a Plus they have an accuracy bonus trait.

[Aeni]

Re: Drk comments from convention

To be fair, DRG get TP very fast. It's possible to get 24+ TP a jump. >_>a Plus they have an accuracy bonus trait.

No, I was talking about our unofficial hidden (-ACCURACY) bonus on DRKs. Like SE doesn't want us to succeed in this game. Seriously.

[tdh]

Re: Drk comments from convention

Yeah, there does seem to be an Acc- on all weapons with Delay about 500. lol Like you forgot what you were doing between swings, so the lose in concentration makes you blind or something.

I've said it a bazillion times, so I'll say it again. DRK needs a TP Gimmick! WAR has Double Attack, DRG has Jump x3, SAM gets Whiff Attack, (Lv.60 Zanshin) MNK gets Kick Attacks not to mention attacking 15 times per ever Scythe swing, THF has Triple Attack, and let's not forget the listed jobs that all sub WAR or NIN their entire career.

I'd like a natural Double Attack, and fixing Last Resort would make a lot of us happier. But Double Attack would be key to help us keep up with TP. Most of us can put up good numbers with OUT Berserk, but Double Attack really helps with that high delay Scythe and keeping up with a TP partner. For me at Lv.52 my Skillchain partners are THF and WAR. Yeah... like I can keep up with them? At Lv.66 Light leaves us WAR and RNG. Again... yeah right! I'm not sure which is more mean. Us having to keep up with the fastest TP builders this side of Meditate, or them having to wait for us to swing the big stick.

As Elvaan, I like Scythe style better. I really dislike the way we hold a Great Sword, but I know it's needed. I gave up on Great Sword at Lv.34, at that point Scythe was doing more damage and I regret the hell outta that decision. I've been doing all I can to level it to get it caught up to my Scythe because I know once I hit Lv.66, it's the only weapon I'll be using. I haven't seen a DRK use a Scythe in EXP since Lv.65. They made Great Sword so attractive, most don't bother with Scythe.

Another thing we need is a means to shed the hate we build. If we could get away with a 1k CR with WAR sub and not get out heads pecked off, maybe more DRKs would sub WAR, and swing the Scythe.