Two-Handed Weapons and Dual Wielding

[Armando]

Re: Two-Handed Weapons and Dual Wielding

What Nanatsu was saying is that when a WAR DD gets caught off-guard, they get hit just as hard as a DRK would be. Most WARs nowadays are DDs, and aren't any more likely to have a set of Darksteel armor standing by than any DRK here. That being said, the only real difference is that WARs will be subbing /NIN 99% of the time.

So apparently defense bonus trait doesn't matter, so why does anyone need attack bonus if it's pretty much the same thing on the opposite side. I feel defense bonus is getting vastily underrated in this topic.

It's not underrated. It's just not very good. Not bad, not great. At the level where you get it, it's a big improvement, but since we're all discussing the high levels, +10 Defense is a very small difference. Likewise, Attack Bonus alone doesn't make anyone hit that much harder - haven't you been complaining about how WARs will hit just as hard as you, despite the fact that DRKs have 3 more Attack Bonuses? It adds up, but on its own, it's not so great.

[DakAttack]

Re: Two-Handed Weapons and Dual Wielding

That said, fuck you. You're an idiot. Learn how to read for the love of god, you melodramatic shit-faced emo dark knight bitch. You're pulling a fucking DRG here. I mean truly, I didn't know the universe could accommodate this much irony.

[Langolier]

Re: Two-Handed Weapons and Dual Wielding

What Nanatsu was saying is that when a WAR DD gets caught off-guard, they get hit just as hard as a DRK would be. Most WARs nowadays are DDs, and aren't any more likely to have a set of Darksteel armor standing by than any DRK here. That being said, the only real difference is that WARs will be subbing /NIN 99% of the time.

Yeah, but WHY is that? THAT IS THE ISSUE, and the answer to the question is because WAR is such a good DD on it's own that it doesn't require a sub to find it's niche. It uses a sub to enhance that DD even more. It doesn't matter that WAR will get hit almost as hard as DRK (he does indeed have way better gear for defense and more HP) because he WONT GET HIT AT ALL.

[Smasholays]

Re: Two-Handed Weapons and Dual Wielding

DRK gets one more attack bonus than WAR, not 3 - unless someone has read something I haven't. That being said it has more to do with two-handed weapons being weaker than one-handed is why WAR can hit as much if not harder than a DRK.

As has been said, the defense argument is stupid because not only will war get hit for less, but usually they won't get hit at all.

[lionx]

Re: Two-Handed Weapons and Dual Wielding

http://ffxi.killvoid.com/page.php?id=47

http://ffxi.killvoid.com/page.php?id=129

Just want to say that WAR only gets 1 ATK bonus so DRK does have two more ATK bonus over the WAR and NIN gives nothing in addition to WAR in relation to job traits of ATK bonus. This is a very interesting thread btw and i been keeping track of this for a while. But throughout my levels, the only time i dont really like a DRK is when they sub THF and gain slow TP.

[nanatsu]

Re: Two-Handed Weapons and Dual Wielding

Okay number one, my point was about war def vs drk def as not being that much difference, not enough to cite it something that makes war overpowered over drk. Having said that, it was only a very small part of my argument, which was that war doesn't have a terribly significant advantage over drk until you throw a /nin sub on there and give them dual axes. My intent was to get the argument focused more on the problems of the /nin subjob, rather than saying that there is a problem with war job specifically.

I also said that some of my opinions had changed since reading other people's replies in this thread. At any rate, the conversation started to get focused more on defense, but that's only because people were trying to say that war can somehow resist more damage than drk when that simply isn't true. The discussion went in that direction at that point.

[Langolier]

Re: Two-Handed Weapons and Dual Wielding

Ok, fair enough. So what do you reccomend we do to solve that problem? There are many possibilities.

A.) Give DRK actual Job Abilities/traits that are useful and effective in a party setting.

B.) Nerf Ninja as a subjob.

C.) Nerf Ninja as a mainjob. (I don't like this one, even though it is an unbalanced job that should never have been created)

D.) Nerf Warrior. (Not sure how you'd do that)

E.) Give DRK better magic.

F.) A combination of A.) and E.)

--------------------------

It sounds like alot to ask for, but really Last Resort and Weapon Bash need some improving. Arcana Killer and Arcane Circle could use a dose of usefulness too, however that goes for all the killer traits and circle abilities. At the same time, it'd be nice if DRK had access to more debuffing spells.

Meltdown
Job: Dark Knight
Level: 50
MP: 45
Durration: 1-3 minutes. (milage will vary)
Casting time: Moderate. (About as long as an Absorb)

Note: The ability "Meltdown" used by Dolls will be changed Whatthefuckeverwhogivesadamnanythingbutmeltdown.

Note#2: By all means, make the spell drop from a rather hard BCNM. Shelling out a few hundred-K or even a mil for some of the new DRK spells (that we've suggested) would be fair if they were effective spells that actually made an impact on the flow of battle.

[Lmnop]

Re: Two-Handed Weapons and Dual Wielding

Not even sure what Doll's meltdown does but since it's the name of a spell in FF8 I suppose there's a chance S-E will nab it as Blue Magic...

[DakAttack]

Re: Two-Handed Weapons and Dual Wielding

Not even sure what Doll's meltdown does but since it's the name of a spell in FF8 I suppose there's a chance S-E will nab it as Blue Magic...

Meltdown is a very deadly AE attack that dolls do before they die. It's a bit like Final Sting, but it can be twice as strong and deal damage to anybody and everybody within a certain radius. I'm not sure if their health has anything to do with the amount of damage it does.

[Smasholays]

Re: Two-Handed Weapons and Dual Wielding

Meltdown/Self-Destruct that go off even if you stun = Orz

[Langolier]

Re: Two-Handed Weapons and Dual Wielding

It doesn't go off if you stun it.

Oh, and as for the effect of Meltdown (the spell)

Perhaps it should place:

Damage Taken +5-15% effect on the mob. have it start as 5% when you first learn the spell and gradually get stronger maybe with Dark magic skill? Could even have it's own merits. Might be too strong. Perhaps a static number like 10% would be better.

[Smasholays]

Re: Two-Handed Weapons and Dual Wielding

It's rare but it can happen, I know I'm not the only one who has seen it. It's not that people stun too late because the animation is already gone yet it still blows up.. Hell, maybe it's a glitch. >->

Edit: But it does seem to take a little longer than normal for it to go off, or maybe its just feels like a long time because I know it's about to blow up in my face.

[Lmnop]

Re: Two-Handed Weapons and Dual Wielding

face-explosions have that effect.

Question for 75 Drks who've tried or done the research that I'm too lazy to look into: what do "Last Resort Effect" merits actually... do? Up the attack bonus? decrease defense penalty like the AF piece?

[Langolier]

Re: Two-Handed Weapons and Dual Wielding

They increase the Attack/Def mods by 2% each merit.

[Lmnop]

Re: Two-Handed Weapons and Dual Wielding

I know this thread has died and it should've stayed as such. However, I am at work and more than a little bored, so I have some input.

C.) Nerf Ninja as a mainjob. (I don't like this one, even though it is an unbalanced job that should never have been created)

I love ninja, it is rediculously fun. But truer words have never been spoken. Give a class the enfeebling ability of a RDM (missing a few, but for what it lacks, it also has elemental wheel which is the same as a brd's threnodies, but can't be resisted. also has a slow and paralyze which are -more- potent than rdm versions), extremely good defense (2nd best evasion, 2nd best parry, more Damage Reduction gear than PLD can wear, and of course, 2 blink spells -- how did they not see a tank coming?) and then also give them the ability to decrease the delay of the weapons they have (they stole monk's forte). This last wouldn't be so bad if Katana had base DMG like daggers, but they don't. They average a good 10 higher base DMG over good thieves' daggers. Oh, and they have about the same STR growth as a mnk and can wear all their equipment. Can't wear Black Belt but they have a hauby.

I don't know, maybe I'm missing something. And I'd hate to say that nin is overpowered. I think that if RDM had better enfeebles and monk could protect themselves better while dishing out maximum damage, there wouldn't be a problem with NIN. Once that point is reached, the goal is to bring the remaining 12 jobs up to ninja-like level.

Every job should have a list of ideal jobs that it works with best. And every job should be on another job's list of ideal jobs to work with. I mean this with Support and mages too. I want Dark Knight to be on BLU's list of jobs it works fantastic with.

About Last Resort: It would appear that +attack doesn't help very much for SATA WS because the Crit effect of SA is effectively an overloading of attack. Of course, (supposedly) it ups your ratio limit from 2.4 to 3.4 or whatever. So if even with SA, you're only hitting 2.5 or whatever, then +attack would take advantage of the temporarily increased cap. I'm not trying to be smart and scientific. I've read the reads of this stuff and this is what I see in it. The point is, especially on exp mobs, Last Resort's attack boost most probably has very little-to-no effect on SA WS damage. This is especially agitating for an ability that really only lasts long enough to help out WS. So I can see LR being very handy for /war WSs. but then, the massive hate spike associated with LR shoots you in the foot in that scenario.

They designed Dark Knight and Thief backwards. Souleater gets the most boost from swinging quickly, so they gave them slow weapons. Thieves need powerful, 1 hit WSs to get the most out of SATA, so of course, they gave them Dancing Edge(5), Shark Bite(2), and Evisceration(5 again, I think).

ack, i gotta go.