Dark Knight Changes

[Langolier]

Originally posted by jmedno5891
What I wish they would let us merit is the cast time on spells like Drain, Aspir, and Stun. I can't even count the times that I finish stunning a mob, and like 10 seconds later I have to stun it again

I think that idea would make alot of sense.

We get access to these three spells before anyone else.

So why not let us master them in some way?

I think I'll add this idea to the list tomorrow... when I'm not so sleepy.

[l)@RK-l)EVIL]

stun II yes please

[Icemage]

Here's how I'd fix Dark Knight:

Last Resort: Instead of adding ATK, make it give you additional damage relative to the amount of damage you've sustained. So if you're down, say, 50% HP, have it add 50% to your attack damage (which, incidentally would make it much more true to its name, don't you agree?)

Souleater: Is fine just the way it is, I think (and if LR was changed as above, would make them much more useful in combination.. Souleater to tack on damage, and Last Resort to take on even more damage as you lose HPs from Souleater).

Blood Weapon: Simple fix. Make it so that while Blood Weapon is active, you are incapable of dropping below 1 HP - physical damage which would drop you below 1 simply leaves you at 1 HP. Again, would give amazing synergy with LR if it was changed as above, and also give DRKs some interesting (albeit potentially suicidal) end-game options.

Weapon Bash: Instead of giving it a Stun effect, make it give Evasion Down for a short time instead.

Elemental Magic: Improve the DRK's dismal elemental magic skill to B+. That makes them viable for magic bursts, and gives you a reason to actually buy those nuke spells.

Add a new DRK JA that you can activate once every 15 minutes that gives you back MP equal to the damage dealt by your next hit (thus solving the rest/TP problem that DRKs have with MP).

I have no issues with adding Drain II and Aspir II to a DRK's spell repertoire (and Bio III is probably not out of the question, either).


Icemage

[Gman]

Not sure if this was mentioned already, but for the love of God, give DRK higher than "E" in Marksmanship. Thats pathetic. C- or C would be more in line with the DRK's overall combat abilities. It's already stupid that they get no Bow skill at all, at least give them something else.

I just finished leveling DRK to 37 for subjob on my RDM, and it was a struggle. My REAL damage came from Holy Bolts, not weapon swings. Maybe a higher Xbow skill would unbalance the job, maybe not, but I just missed way too much. If a SAM can be proficient with Bow, and even sub RNG to become a sidewinder whore, why cant DRK use xbow more efficiently? If you are going to give a job a skill at something, why must it be E? Almost not worth using at all.

BTW last resort sucks. Pulls too much hate, and not that useful, plus it only lasts 30 seconds. Berserk >>>>> LR. So I agree with Icemage that it has to be fixed.

[kumaeru]

heh that would rock if LR was made like that :3
lower HP more dmg. Last Resort.. makes sense.

[Langolier]

I think that Last Resort idea is the best one yet...

[Langolier]

I hate to double-post, but editing won't do much...

So I thought about it...

Over-all the magic side of DRK, in my opinion, ought to be enhanced...

Well why not give us more spells?

So some of my ideas...

Dispel:

We all know what this does. It's darkbased, so I don't see why not. It'd be kinda useful in EXP too and it fits the DRK image.

<Insert Creative Name>:

Very similar to Dispel, except it Absorbs the buff on the mob and gives it to the user... naturally it has a higher MP cost and recast than Dispel.

Confuse:

Lowers accuracy and evasion by X% based on Dark Magic skill perhaps? Again, this also fits with the DRK image.

I think I already mentioned Blind and Bio III elsewhere in this thread.

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Also, another idea for Last Resort that I heard:

Perhaps this skill might increase both Attack and Magic Attack by a certain %? This would be interesting because a boost in Magic Attack before WS might actualy make it worthwhile to MB on our own chains. I can get about 220-250 with Thunder II... it'd be nice to get 350+... even if only ever 5 minutes.

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Lately, I've been noticing our Attack Bonus traits aren't that stellar...

Overall I think they should be enhanced.

I shouldn't need a Bard or Berserk to get decent and reliable damage per hit. Attack is supposed to be our fortay, or it would appear so, in theory.

So perhaps...

Attack Bonus 1: +10 Attack.

Attack Bonus 2: +20 Attack.

Attack Bonus 3: +30 Attack.

Attack Bonus 4: +40 Attack.

I believe that's all of our Attack traits... if they were modified this way, and stacked, that'd be +100 Attack just from our Job Traits... currently we only get +40... So that extra +60 Attack would be akin to eating a Mithkabob... it'd allow us to Eat sushi and not do such crap damage when not using /war.

DRK seems like it's supposed to be a DD specialist, so I don't think we should be quite as dependent on our SJ to do damage as we currently are.

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A note about Souleater, incase I forgot to include this before:

I think it would be fair if the initial activation of Souleater actually reduced enmity a bit. Say by 25% or something... enough so that I could use it when subbing /war and not immediately have hate. The ability does kind of look scary, and hitting for 250-300ish damage a hit is gonna get us enough hate, not to mention the -HP should have been balancing enough, in my opinion.

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Gear for Dark Knights!

I was talking to a friend... and I realized that the Deathbringer was perhaps the only weapon in the game that I thought was properly built for DRK.

It has +18 Attack and -7 Defense.

We should have more equip like this...

Our JSE is a step in the right direction, but the difficulty in getting it kind of negates it, in my opinion. For most jobs, they get a piece of gear with +10 Attack and no penalty. (this is just an example) I think DRK should get more gear that's like this:

Attack +20 Defense -10 Evasion. DRK seems to be a job that 'sacrifices' alot. Happiness for power... defense for offense, HP for damage...

In a sense, the Adaman set looks like it'd be DRK-ish, except that as far as I can tell the -10 to the base stats doesn't make up for the marginal increase in Attack and Accuracy over the Thick set.

We ought to get some sort of end-game armor, that is reasonably obtainable (at least parts of it) that has lots of nice offensive boosts, greater than those given to other classes, but they would also have reasonable defensive penalties.

So you know...

[Uber Mufflers] Attack +30, AGI -5, VIT -5, Evasion -5.

[Uber Breeches] Attack +10, STR +5, INT +5, Evasion -5, VIT -10.

[Uber Sollerets] Accuracy +10, DEX +5, Evasion -7.

[Uber Barbuta] Accuracy +7, Attack +7, INT +6, AGI -10.

[Uber Mail] Attack +20, Accuracy +10, STR +10, INT +10, Evasion -10, VIT -10, AGI -5.

So... Attack +67, Accuracy +27, STR +15, INT +21, DEX +5.

And as a trade off... Evasion -27, AGI -20, VIT -20. So you'll take critical hits like mad, won't dodge anything, and those same criticals will do nasty damage. Very poor offense. I'm not sure what the actual defensive ratings on the armor would be, but -Defence on the pieces just seems wierd.

Additionally, I think the existiong DRK only Scythes and Greatswords (and indeed, any DRK only weapon) should have similar +Attack and -Defense stats as Deathbringer.

[fuz]

I'd actually like to be able to cast and swing at the same time. There is no shortage of spells I'd like to cast, but I'm held back by MP regeneration, hate accumulation, and most importantly, the great increase in melee/tp delays.

[Ghostraven]

Originally posted by Langolier

<Insert Creative Name>:

Very similar to Dispel, except it Absorbs the buff on the mob and gives it to the user... naturally it has a higher MP cost and recast than Dispel.

i like this idea alot

[Macht]

There not much of the ideas I can really agree with on this thread. First of to point out SE made it very clear that a DRK is a combination of WAR and BLM you are not RDM. There is nothing in SE's description of this job that indicates them to be Extreem Damage Dealers, just that they are master of tormenting.

So Dispel like spells are definatly out as well as the any En- spells. With the Job Traits of Attack Boosts the DRK is already exceeding any other class in bonuses they get with that respect. WAR and DRG only get 1 Attack Boost, they are the only ones to get this boost were DRK gets 4. So these crazy ideas to push attack even higher I have a hard time agreeing with.

Now you are definatly not dominant BLM your spell list is exact and to the point. Everything focused around torment and torture, Warp and Warp II I don't see having much of a place on the list but I would say the same about Tractor. If any get put in then at most I could agree with just Warp.

Drain II and Aspir II from what I've watched with just Drain and Aspir implimenting a II version to it look to be way to powerful as the same with Stun II in the games current state. As far as any Resist ability goes, they kick in just fine if your gear is set towards it with the right elements raised and yes still won't resist monster of IT+ but really that's just silly if it did. Along with the Resists I can put the Killer types in that same catagory, the naming is bad much like how the naming of an old MUD i played titled such effects.

When they state Killer it doesn't mean a proficency in killing that monster, it is much like a stereotype you are known for killing that kind of monster as an effect they are hesitant to attack. Again makes sense at the point it's at EM and under should have possibility of it happening but on VTs or ITs it should be nearly non-existent.

The idea for Blood Weapon being some shorter time ability is to powerful when it's combined with Souleater. The combination of the two have already been demonstrated on how powerful they can be that I don't see them warranting any change (Blood Weapon + Souleater has the ability to easily overpower any DD).

I also can't agree with absorb-TP, also since with the Scythes delay it only takes 3-5 hits to be ready for a WS have a WHM cast haste and the gaps there are covered quickly. It becomes to powerful if there is an inate +Haste and then have WHM add Haste onto that.

A Barrage like TP added effect I can't agree with. On RNG it only seems fair because like already stated they are wasting gil, they are spending out 4-6 times a much gil in 1 Barrage attacks so only reasonable they get TP out of it. If you truely want to raise TP faster then I'd suggest subbing the job that is proficent in it Samurai.

Final thing I can't agree with is adding Magic Attack Bonuses. If you really need bonuses of this type then sacrifice some damage potential to sub BLM and cover the loss with equipment.

Now what I can agree with:

Alright it makes sense that DRK could recieve spells like Blind and Confuse.

I also agree that Last Resort does appear to need some improvement, I'm not sure I can agree with the suggested way of improving it though. At 50% getting a damage of 150% (or 50% increase) just looks way to powerful I mean say you do 200 damage a normal hit 150% means now it's 300 damage. Do this with a SATAWS getting as low as 1000 only and you're looking at a 1500 damage instead. Then if you were near dead and had 75% then 1000 damage is now 1750, just way to strong a change. As far as I may be able to agree with is probably more of a setup that's like this:

>75% HP = 20% Attack Bonus
50% - 75% HP = 25% Attack Bonus
25% - 50% HP = 30% Attack Bonus
0% - 25% HP = 35% Attack Bonus

With this then lengthen the time it lasts. This way used while still quite healthy and the Attack gets penalized and gets a bonus just under what Berserk would do. Then also if used when the person is getting closer to death it's Attack Bonus is greater then what you'd get from any food (Max foods do are generally +32% Attack Bonus but more common to see ones around 20%-25%).

[fuz]

I don't really agree on adding more attack passives, though I don't understand why xbow stands at rank E. I'll explain more...

That drk is part blm inherently means that drk is also part rdm. Blm, along with drk and even whm, have an enfeebling magic skill. But we don't have blind (which I have to use an xbow for, oddly enough), or dia, which is the counterpart to acid bolts.

I'd prefer either one or the other. Either raise our low xbow skills to D/C- for more consistent bloody bolt use and more reliable enfeebling, or just give us the darn spells and keep it at rank E. I can hit mages and other drks from their low evasion, but the targets I really need these effects to land on (war, sam, drg, thf, etc) I can't hit without a lot of luck. I use ranged attacks a lot more than wars, so I'm not sure why it's lower than theirs.

Enhancing magic is not for a drk, we don't have that skill. A pld however, does. Warp would be nice though--after all, the bad guys always have some method for a fast getaway in cartoons. >.> But alas it is enhancing related.

Drain II, Aspir II, Stun II, would be... well, very overpowered if you've dueled as a drk in balista. Stun twice, take away 300-500 of your HP and give it to me? Sign me up! XD

If bloodweapon lasted any longer... kraken equiped drks in balista could mow down 5 people with uber damage and no self inflicted HP loss. As an experienced recipient of such carnage, I die in seconds as is. I'd not like to see half my team gone in the course of a minute.

A slight magic attack bonus and an elemental skill raise to A- I think is ok. Tier 2 spells as it is, are very MP costly for a drk, even if they do pretty good damage for a ranged attack in balista. We normally can't cast them due to the cast time and small MP pool, so currently there is very little justification to actually use them in any situation--like we're binded or a pld just 2hr-ed. Drain has a much better damage/mp ratio. I can't ever find a time where I was encouraged to MB elemental magic on a SC since people would prefer me to cast more absorbs, or save MP for stuns and the next exp chain.

Absorb TP seems ok if it drains 30TP max, 10TP min. To much and it's overpowered, too little and there's no point considering the MP and the cast time. TP is a static stat, unlike str or agi which keep increasing every level, so the spell would have to be as such. It would be very interesting considering the tredecim scythe's TP poison effect. It could open up some interesting strategy on HNMs, besides being a stun whore.

Last resort really does suck. I find that abs-str helps more than LR does. :T Can't make it too powerful though. We can already stack it with berserk, and maybe attack boosting food for some insane attack levels. Of course, come real gameplay... it never works out as good as it does on paper. I like Macht's idea, but I would tone it down more than that.

[Macht]

Yeah the idea on the Last Resort I was trying to find what would be a decent balance. I finally came to the decision that closely resembling what food would do for you was close but going slightly under should still be good.

The Absorb TP putting it at were you suggested makes a little more reasonable it's almost equivalent to a hit though. So I could see it working if it has a short casting time and a decent length delay.

[Langolier]

What is the problem with stacking Last Resort and Berserk and getting really high attack?

You know how much that will your defence? The higher damage is only going to increase the chance of hate, not to mention Last Resort's built in provoke.

Ballista should not be a reason to or not to give DRK something, or any other class. If it's a problem there, fix it.

The problem I notice on boards is that while people aggree melee jobs, maybe even DRK, are underpowered, they are never willing to give them a boost.

No offense, but a Ranger needn't be telling me how overpowered some of these suggestions are. You job is the pinnacle of overpowered.

Once again, I never said all of these changes should be implemented, I'm just suggesting them as a few possible ideas that might one day be added. (They won't be, but you know what I mean)

Why shouldn't our 2-hour kickass? Why shouldn't it be capable of turning a losing party battle? It's not even that great when solo'ing.

As it stands we have very poor innate melee, magical, enfeebling, ranged, and defensive abilities in our main job. We are only acceptable in one or two of the above mentioned fields after using a SJ. We can't stand on our own two-feet.

I ask for more attack bonuses because the innate natural acc, or should I say Tp-gain, of other jobs comes from their having faster hits, or ACC raising JA's, or Tp-building JA's, or not having to cast spells.

At 65-71 or so this is balanced because we have un-parralled WS's, most of the time. However that ends up fading away and we end up being over-shadowed in both cases.

Other classes have an easier time hitting already, and then they end up getting access to gear that lets them overcome our 'supposed' Attack advantage. I have damn good gear and my attack only barely edges out the other melee jobs. +10 Evasion on an evasion bonus is alot better than +10 Attack. 10 Attack is nothing on it's own and it doesn't even show up in EXP. However +50 Evasion is gonna be a hell of a lot more useful. If a THF with capped Evasion and all that +Evasion gear can, and I quote someone on another forum, "Dodge like a lvl 80 mob." Then why doesn't my DRK hit like a lvl 80 mob? Or a PLD take the hits like a lvl 80 mob?

Maybe DRK was just a bad idea... as it seems any improvement to make the class actually good at something makes it overpowered.

We were supposed to be a DD WAR who gave up that useless tanking for Magic. Instead we gave up our defense but didn't gain a whole hell of alot anywhere else.

I ask for Warp II because Warp wont' do much. It'll save me money, but Warp II will save other people some money and hassel too. SE can always change the skill for Warp from Enhancing to Dark, or just give the spell to DRK and leave it as is. So we won't ever get any skill points using Warp, so what?


We're all free to disagree, I dont' want anyone to take this as a flame. I like the feedback.

Truthfully, the only thing I think we ever have a chance of being improved is Last Resort.

[Balodoth]

If there's any En-spell I can see DRK getting, it would be Endark. I don't see DRK getting any, but if they could get just one, that would be it.

Possibly an ability to get a free swing after casting a spell might be fair. Spells like stun or ABS-STR would be less likely since the benefit is obvious, as ones with very low cast times. But longer spells that do actually run the risk of lower DRK damage output could boost the likelihood of this ability going off.

One thing that I think DRK could use, and it could then be extended to many other jobs, is an element bonus. This is something that isn't going to be a big deal, but it would be nice. Also it could be extended out to other jobs. You would get a bonus to the dark element equal to 1/4 your level or something like that. PLD could then get a bonus to light. SAM would get a smaller bonus but to all other elements since they release the elements with their WS. DRG could get a bonus depending on the subjob. The list goes on. As I said, it wouldn't make a huge difference in the game, perhaps an avoided spell a couple times a week, but it would be very interesting.

[Langolier]

I've never really been a fan of giving DRK or PLD en-spells.

I mean if that's the case, why not give us the "spikes" as well? Or the other en-spells? Or why not a "curse spikes" if you will, like on the BLM JSE.

I do like the Elemental bonus thing...

I say, give each class 1 point in their corresponding element for each level.

So at 75, my DRK has a natural 75 resistance to Dark element spells...

PLD would have 75 points as well, but to Light.

THF... Wind.

WAR... Fire? There's a lot to work out here.

For BLM, I'd say give them an equal spread among all the Dark elements... Ice, Earth, and Water.

For WHM... the same, only Fire, Thunder, and Wind.

I like the idea, it probably needs more thought though.

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You know, thinking about it... isn't Souleater pretty much -Endark? I know it is magical damage of some kind because I've seen Avatars resist it. With my current HP, I should never hit for below 120 or so when using Souleater, but switching to one-handed sword I've used it and hit avatars for only 80 or so damage.

I would say Souleater must be Dark, but then it works 100% on undead...

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I like the idea of an Extra swing after each spell...

Someone mentioned a TP-regen trait once... and I think this could work. Say 1 TP a tick? Storywise this trait would easily make sense, but I'm not sure how to implement it without it either being a constant meditate, or as useful(less) as Arcana Killer.

Perhaps Last Resort, or a new JA could give us guaranteed Double Attack for a minute or something?