SO... what were the benefits of thf sub?

[Langolier]

^
The static doesn't seem to mind. Two things will happen, they won't mind and I'll continue lvling, or I'll just quit DRK and go something else.

[truong]

Like people have suggested, have the RNG sub /WAR. It'll solve all your problems. Provoke > Arching Arrow will grab hate no matter how good your PLD is. But... against certain mobs with strong attacks that are capable of one shotting the RNG (scorpions, spiders, tigets) this is really dangerous for the RNG with their mage defense. So the only way to make a team of PLD/WAR DRK/THF and RNG/WAR is to pray that your PLD is good and experienced. Experienced meaning he knows exactly how much hate he needs, not too much that a RNG can't peel it off him, but just enough that when the mob is hit with arching arrow, it'll turn. Remember, a good PLD knows how to keep hate, but a great PLD knows how and when to lose it. Another thing you can do is ask the PLD to disengage or turn away from the mob a few seconds prior to the SC, this also helps big time. If the PLD has this down, this is arguably the best set up a DRK/THF could be in later levels.

And no, DRK/WAR does not do more damage than a DRK/THF after 65. DRK/WAR will never be able to fully use Soul Eater without killing the mages MP. And to whoever said that their PT does not mind him using DRK/WAR, they WILL mind once they see how useful DRK/THF is and how inferior DRK/WAR is to /THF. Better level up /THF now before it's too late.

[little ninja]

what i dont get is this. if icarus's pt is not having any problems holding hate, then really part of thf sub is wasted. an while yes it does lead to a lower damage ws, to much damage is really overkill, unless you weapon skill right off the bat. or really early in the fight, things i really never see.

now i feel a drk/thf is very well needed when a nin is blink tanking. its just easier for us to hold that hate without us spaming throwing items, an ninja powders.


basically the high lvl drks are all right. all pt's after the 60's wants a thf sub, even if the pld holds hate "like flies on shit." an that for a drk/thf to work with a ranger. the ranger must use war sub. so i say dont quit drk. next pt invite with a rng/nin. tell him he'd best change the sub to war..

[eraw]

Another reason I think the Thf sub is preferred, is that it guarantees that your weapon skill will land.

[BuriGuri]

Originally posted by little ninja
unless you weapon skill right off the bat. or really early in the fight, things i really never see.

Which is what you want to do for chain 5 ? considering a chain + MB would leave a mob with like 10-20% hp.

[Langolier]

It may all be true, but I'm not lvling THF eitherway. I did not become a DRK so that I could lvl THF. I can't stand the job, and I'm sure as hell not taking it up another 30 lvls. (it's lvl 7.) We'll see how things go.

[Legend]

I don't like thief either, in fact Dark and War are my favorite jobs, which made me glad that they can be combined successfully.

I'm in the mid 30's I really don't ever want to sub Thief, even if Im losing out on a potential 600 dmg and this is only on SC's? What about Berzerk? Can't that make up a little damage over time. And how often will a ranger /war be in your PT every time after 60.

Well I lvl slow, I have a long time until 60+ I won't dwell on it now.

[Kosy]

A friend pointed me to this thread ... here's my own comment, although I have not yet gotten to 60 for TA yet ...

Just from my own observation, /THF really lower DOT by a whole lot. Some of the numbers thrown about are utter bullsh*t. The normal DOT numbers are really different. I subbed THF last night on my DRK for expp the first time ever. Let me tell you, it down right sucked. SA normal < Double Attack. I get Double Attack 2-3 times per battle FYI. Also, without Berserk, my normal damage was significantly lower - roughly 30 to 50 dmg points per swing lower at times on a lowered monster's defense - and this was off of Goblins and Lizards at Cape Teriggan. I can get about 10 good solid hits on the monster per battle on average (less if the monster dies fast more if the monster is highly resistive to spells and has defense/evasion boosts). This difference in normal DOT can translate to roughly 300 to 500 damage per battle.

Granted, I have no meaningful weapon skill to stack SA with at this point (Slice.)(No thank you.) However, I cannot imagine any /THF adding that much more in damage to using a weapon skill normally. Everyone has been saying adding DEX to a /THF job will not increase or do anything for SA. If that's the case, then the same should be true with SA in general. That is must be totally gimped on a sub versus on THF main.

In short, unless you do not have a hate controller (Main THF), I wouldn't bother with /THF. It only makes the total team effort really gimp overall.

[surlung]

all this discussion doensn't mean much. You need to see why /thf is good for yourself. /thf doesn't change the original character of the drk, it just extends drk's capability.

DRK is so good at high level because playstyle can change dramatically with two subjobs... don't let this trait goto a waste.

[truong]

Kosy: Sub /WAR from 1-65. This is the best option for DRK now that they nerfed the tp return. Don't even bother subbing /THF until level 65. Once you hit 65, sub /THF, once you get first hand taste of SA/TA Cross Reaper for 700+1000 on to the tank, bust out Soul Eater to finish the 5th mob in record time, then come back and tell me /WAR does more damage 65+.

And damnit people, stop saying DoT. 99% of you don't even know what DoT is. Repeat after me: DoT means JACK SHIT in exp pt. When you're in an experience PT, no one gives a shit how much damage you can do over the course of 1 day; we want to know how much damage you can do right now, in this battle, this particular chain. DoT = made up horse shit by MNK fanboys.

[surlung]

one more thing people are undermining about /thf subjob.

Cross reaper without sa = 400-550 at best. Sometimes miss first hit.
Cross reaper with sa = 600-1000 - 600 if second hit miss.

Spin Slash without sa = 400-600, misses alot (kind of like vorpal)
spin slash with sa = 700-1000. Never miss.

Extra damage coming from NOT missing ws + extra damage from SA + extra damage from renkei = more than make up for DOT damage of warrior.

Sure, warrior is very good sj (Right now with berserk, warcry, double attack and provoke, it's very very good sub no doubt).

Have both, adapt your playing style.

[gix]

there isn't really a debate of whether to use /thf 65+, you just do.... Once the invites come flooding in, and you tell them you can't /thf and/or spin��ｗ, goodbye invite.
for those who static, you're doing them a disfavor by /war. there's a reason why people like cookie cutter job combinations, because it works!

[iforget]

if you are using cross reaper with a good pld, warrior sub is better imo. I've nailed several 1.0-1.5k souleater cross reapers with warrior sub (jaw droppage if double attack fires). This wont work on hi evasion mobs or if your paladin isnt up to snuff. (ie, cant keep hate off the blm during magic burst, so needs you to trick it.) The biggest downside is that the dmg is all over the place, ranging from 200-1500, so its a big letdown sometimes, and overkill at others. But you get to do them a lot more often War sub good for 4 mage parties also.

for spinslash, sub thief.

[mezner]

The question you should really ask yourself when debating on subjobs is what kind of person are you? Do you only work at what's best for you, or what's best for your party. I want to be the most useful kind of DRK I can be, so I'm working on finishing up WAR, THF, SAM, NIN, and WHM as subjobs. If you decide to just stick to one subjob, you're really cutting yourself short and alternative party dynamics (and not just xp pts).

YMMV, but I had a complete blast leveling up THF. Nothing like sneaked Combo/Fast Blade to keep you @.@. A couple weeks of work now (that's how long I took to get my THF to 30 while still xping main) with save you some grief later on. Regardless of how stubborn you may be now about not leveling up THF, once you get Spinning Slash, you *will* break down and want Trick Attack.

[Langolier]

I "Broke down" and have decided to lvl THF. Mostly because my static left me in the dust while I was moving to a new house. Also because I just need a break from the game. It will probably now be at least another half year until I reach 75 DRK, if at all(might just quit all together). I've decided that I no longer like sub-jobs because now I have to lvl a job I have no interest in playing. Gosh, if that SATA nerf turned out to be true, I would be so devilishly happy. ::cruel smile::