Just End this about DRK's...they're no bigtime dmg dealers

[Kato]

DRK does damage! They are MEELEE dmg dealers. thats all

[Dragon Ghost]

WHAT I THOUGHT MONKS WERE THE BIG MELEES?!?!?!:confused:

[Gatts]

Originally posted by MeleeFighterFF
monk outdamages dark knight...
overall, dark knight is the 4th highest damage dealer in the game

You have no idea what youre talking about.
For one, youre level 19, thats like.. a couple hours experience. And for two, Dark Knights are more important for skill chains than Monks, and have other more useful abilities to contribute to the party, instead of just high damage. A Monk can not SATA well because he uses two weapons, and therefor could never be the hate controller that a Dark Knight/Thief is.

Most classes have their uses in a party, its not all about damage. And Anyway, a well equipped Dark Knight (very expensive) closing renkeis and using Soul Eater well will outdamage ANY Monk all the way to hell and back, ive actually watched high level battles and compared their damage at the end because of these stupid Monk vs. Dark Knight arguements.

Lastly, i suggest you actually do some real research instead of going by what some dude says about his muscles in the Monk forum, or any forum for that matter.
Youre just a whelp for crying out loud.

What a moronic attempt to insult Dark Knights to try and boost yourself.

[Zafron]

dumbest thread ever.

I stopped reading after the first 2 posts. If somebody posted something intellegent in the last 5 or so pages it was completely wasted on me.

meleeFighter = noob fanboy

and doesn't really know anything about the game being that he is only in lv30. Why people are bothering to even reply is beyond me.

Thank god DRKs don't post dumb crap like this. If i were a MNK i would be embarased that this idiot played the same class as me.

[l)@RK-l)EVIL]

i outadamged rng in my last pt
i hit for 150~ he hit for 90~
sidewinder 900~ guillotine 800~ (rng sometimes miss the ws and i miss some hits many times )
souleater = barrage

lol i tell him i outdamaged you and he laugh lol
he change his bow and use gun ( guns delay is fast :mad: )
it was like that rng gun 130~+140 drk 150~
slugshot 1200~ guillotine 800~
the mean of the story we can outdamage rng who use bow

[RukawaSCSU]

Closing renkei? Sneak+Trick+Dragonkick on bones for light renkei? (Can I have it)

We're closing in on the level 3 renkeis, and in 2 levels, we're trying out lvl1 transfixion vs bones, via sneak+trick+howling fist. (howling fist is fun though, a piercing ws with a blunt weapon XD)

I don't know why you think that drk is the ONLY choice for renkei closer? I concur, they are indeed GOOD renkei closers, but not the only one available. Rng's arching arrow, thf sa+ta+sharkbite, mnk with serk+dragonkick OR sa+ta+dragon kick...

You misunderstand me. If MNK and DRK in same party on bone, assume you have no other melee than the tank, DRK will close renkei, because, basically, no other way around. Dragon Kick and Spining Slash in same box, and DRK cant make Fusion. So DRK close renkei. If you have some other job, like SAM with Kasha, it will be different, but in that case, kick the DRK, get another MNK for extra dmg on Bone. If not on bone, might kick the MNK get another DRK. not to mention spining slash deal 1k or little less easily. MNK > DRK on the extra bonus of normal hit, not on closing renkei on bone. And they basically can spam Asuran Fist when they have it.

W/o MNK in party, I dont find any other melee who can close renkei better than DRK. THF, no, THF same party DRK = bad after 66, actually bad after 60 already. RNG? i dont think so, SAM, nah, they more like renkei starter.. DRG = no thanks....

[Meier]

If its flat rate damage you want to see, a monk will not stand a chance against a high level dark knight subbing warrior.
The combination is so strong that its very difficult to not draw the hate, and so is useless in a party. Everyone knows dark knight cant take hits, but then again, neither can monk.

[Hisdon]

Originally posted by AtraposBLM
I love how BLM isn't mentioned more than once or twice in this damage dealing crapshoot. It's even said that it's "easy" to out damage blm's. Pfft.

All I know is, I exp almost exclusively with BLM/BLM/BLM/RDM/WHM/PLD. I've done it from lv62 to lv70. Lots of times, we are EXPing right next to other parties. Compared to EVERY SINGLE PARTY, we kill 2-2.5 mobs for every SINGLE mob they kill. Keep in mind, we do this without any weaponskills (other than the pld's), so no burst damage. We even make chain 6 about 30% of the time (most times, there's another PT around, so there just aren't enough mobs close enough to make the pull and get chain 6). Most whm's, brd's, and paladins are very hesitant to join the fray, but you'd be surprised just how ridiculously fast blm's kill things, and how little downtime it creates. Of course, having things like the whm sub brd, blm's have dark staves and use HQ food, etc. all help, but I've done the party with gimp blm's, and with pimp blm's. Most times its the simple fact of not having enough mobs to pull, not that we don't have enough MP or time.


In addition Hisdon - BLM's will outdamage a dark hands down every single time. I've yet to see a drk that can get hate from me, even when I'm wearing full af for a total of -11 enmity. My parser had me at around 10-30% damage advantage (those percents being percents of the TOTAL HP of the mob), excluding the occasional chain 0 or chain 1 mob that I nuke lightly on (faster pulls mean I tend to nuke a little less, settling for slower kills, but better rythm with pops). You may think you outdamage a blm...but the only time you'll get hate is if you stack berserk, soul eater, and last resort. You can only do that every so often - my damage is constant.

Also - dark's don't get a decent weaponskill until Spinning Slash / Cross Reaper. Guillotine is, and always will be, trash. Usually hit for ~200 damage on exp mobs that I saw, and with the TP nerf, it's not even good for that. My bursts at lv60 were in 780-800 damage range. Normal spell damage for OVER 400-500, and you're not getting more than 1.5-2 attacks per spell cast. Maybe you're comparing yourself to blm's without staves...but with them, I've yet to see a melee *consistently* do more damage (by % of the mobs HP) over the course of an exp party. Against anything that ranger's don't get a bonus to, most times, the ranger and I trade off by a few % per fight. On flying mobs, rangers have a slight (~5%) advantage.

I've observed different...for one, I have out dmged BLM's consistantly on many occasions and I won't argue this point cause everytime I say it I get jumped by an army of angry Tarus personally my experiences have been much different. My Guillotines avarage 400-600 dmg and my Sickle Moons 300-500 dmg...maybe the mages I've seen are gimp? Not sure, but I certainly outdmged them...

[ENWEH]

Below is a damage parser graphical analysis thing. Please note the MNK was using fists of godliness (DMG+99999 DLY-99999) and I was using a rusty subligar.

As you can see from the graph, DRK totally own. I typed in the wrong names in Excel and had to do some very technical editing in a very technical program. I won't tell you which program, that would ruin the suspense, just be content in knowing that DRK own. Shit, even PLD own MNK. Even ??? own MNK.

[Rhayn]

I haven't partied with a DRK in an exp session for 14 levels, but I can probably lend some insight regarding RNG, BLM, and THF, since these are in my set and I often run a parser for fun.

Our renkei since level 55 has been Sidewinder > Viper Bite and then Sidewinder > Dancing Edge at level 60. This allows a water/ice magic burst that our BLM almost always hits. Our ranger has most the best equipment excluding Peacock Charm and Eurytos' Bow and our thief is also well equipped. However, until recently our BLM did not have any elemental staves, but did have the Moldavite earring (Magic Atk. Bonus +5).

On monsters that we did not renkei, the black mage and ranger usually were the highest damage dealers at about 30-40% with the THF at 20-30% (percentages are compared to the monsters total hit points). We usually start with a fuidama onto me, so that helps increase the thief's damage and also allows the black mage to nuke with a good bit less pause. Our ranger's frontloaded damage would probably be higher with warrior subjob and berserk, but since our renkei relys on him hitting, we decided ninja subjob for the boosted AGI and dual archer's knives (and at lv63 Francesca) was the better choice.

The percentages were drastically different when we did renkei. Since a large portion of the rangers and thief's damages come from Sidewinder (usually 600-900) and sa/ta + Dancing Edge (usually 500-850) with considerable skillchain damage, the monster of course died much faster, especially with a Blizzaga II or Water III magic burst (prior to Blizzard III). For these fights, the percentages were usually closer to these: RNG - 35-40% , THF - 30-35%, BLM - ~30%. After I received the additional hate from sa/ta + Dancing Edge, the BLM was easily able to chain-nuke with no pause and still not worry about gaining hate. These number are based on fights with Cockatrice, Goblins, Torama, and Raptors. It seemed that these were fairly resistant to elemental damage. I was not yet running a parser when we were exping on Robber Crabs, but it may have been different then.

Recently we helped raise funds for an Ice staff and have been leveling on Sand Cockatrice in Cape Terrigan. These monsters have quite a bit of hit points so our renkei would not deal such a huge proportion of the monsters health like earlier, although it still usually did over 50% the monsters health with the magic burst.

However, after getting the Ice staff I noticed that our black mage's spells were getting resisted significantly less often than before. The hidden 10% damage bonus to Blizzard spells was also quite noticeable. In fact, since we rely on the ranger's Sidewinder to turn the monster for the renkei so the thief can sa/ta + Dancing Edge onto me, I have to keep hate relatively low until we go. Our black mage had to completely readjust his casting order and increments to avoid pulling hate off of me before the renkei and his Blizzard III magic bursts usually did around 700 damage. With this significantly increased effectiveness, I think our black mage could easily out damage our ranger if he chain-nuked the entire time, but this is simply not a good idea. After the renkei, he can chain-nuke without worry, but this is because I have a good 600-1000 damage lead in hate from the renkei, not to mention that since hitting level 65 I now close the renkei with Swift Blade for a darkness skillchain (and another magic burst opportunity). I personally was not surprised to see that the black mage out-damaged our ranger a fairly significant amount of the time, especially when we did not renkei.

We have yet to exp on flying monsters, but we'll probably move onto Skimmers and then Darters soon, which may rebalance the damage since rangers get bonuses to these almost identical to a monks bonus on bones. Flies also have lower defenses than Cockatrice, so our thief will probably do more damage as well, especially since our skillchain will become Arching Arrow > Shark Bite with Light renkei next level. Our ranger has also been improving marksmanship so that he might be able to use guns instead for their higher frontloaded damage. He might need it since Arching Arrow (and the gun equivalent) do about half the damage of Sidewinder/Slug Shot from what I have read.

The point of this post is that the damage potential of any job is very situational. Our ranger might be the highest damage dealer with a warrior subjob, but the ninja subjob benefits us more. Perhaps a drk/thf would be better for overall damage than the thf/nin, but I personally don't think the difference would be drastic since from my observations sa/ta + Spinning Slash/Cross Slash and sa/ta + Shark Bite are about on a level (excluding Soul Eater).

On that note, it is my belief that a well-equipped black mage in general has the greatest potential for damage if they choose and have the MP. However, just like a ranger/dark knight/monk is crippled with low accuracy, a black mage is gimped severely if the spells are often resisted. Obviously I would not be surprised if a dark knight out damaged a black mage on Arcana, but prior to level 70, or the mid 60s if your party has Tu'Lia access, it is rare to find a party that will be hunting arcana. A monk might be better against bones and a ranger better against flying monsters, but a well-equipped dark knight will be approximately equal in their capacity to kill either bones or flies, just like a well-equipped black mage. Another thing to consider is that most people kill crabs starting in the low 50s until around level 60, to which monks do reduced damage.

And as several people have already pointed out, often jobs are desired for more than simply their damage ability. It is hard to deny that a thief can help control aggro than any x/thf since both the sneak attack and trick attack multipliers apply for thief but not for other jobs. The ability to land both a 400+ damage initial fuidama and a 800+ damage sa/ta weaponskill on the tank with the renkei damage is a very powerful ability that allows the other damage dealers, be they ranger, black mage, monk, dark knight, whatever, to completely go all out without fear of retaliation. Also, even in a bone party with a monk or a fly party with a ranger, the dark knights absorb spells not only increase the dark knights effectiveness, but also improve the already boosted damage of the monk or ranger.

To say that "X job is better than X job" is not only close-minded but also ignores the wide myriad of variables that affect a jobs effectiveness, not excluding player skill. I highly recommend people think about all these variables before making such a biased comment, especially one almost certainly aimed to start an arguement with little to back their own opinion except the claim that "other people's parsers have said so". :spin:

[Sukune]

Originally posted by Sakiemdee
WELCOME TO FAGGOTVILLE!
HOME OF THE PENCIL DICK MONK!


POPULATION = 1

MAYOR

MELEE FIGHTER

SHERRIF

MELEE FIGHTER

LIBRARIAN

MELEE FIGHTER

Thanks for visiting! We hope you enjoy your stay!

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[Dragon Ghost]

Originally posted by Sakiemdee
WELCOME TO FAGGOTVILLE!
HOME OF THE PENCIL DICK MONK!


POPULATION = 1

MAYOR

MELEE FIGHTER

SHERRIF

MELEE FIGHTER

LIBRARIAN

MELEE FIGHTER

Thanks for visiting! We hope you enjoy your stay!

lmfao!
BITCH YOU GOT SERVED

[Karinya]

In my experience (as a non-drk who has partied with many different drks) there is a world of difference between a good drk and a bad drk, and sadly, this thread demonstrates the mentalities of both.

[Hisdon]

Originally posted by Karinya
In my experience (as a non-drk who has partied with many different drks) there is a world of difference between a good drk and a bad drk, and sadly, this thread demonstrates the mentalities of both.

true, I didn't know we had so many caps typers in this fourm O.o

[Zafron]

Originally posted by Karinya
In my experience (as a non-drk who has partied with many different drks) there is a world of difference between a good drk and a bad drk, and sadly, this thread demonstrates the mentalities of both.

If by good DRK you mean has a good attitude, is fun to play with, and respects others then yes i aggree, but the sad truth is even the most immature jerk can be an incredibly skilled gamer. If you ever play any FPS or RTS online you will meet them.