FYI: DRK Subs in a nutshell

[TokeN]

THF only adds a slight amount of DEX. There isnt such a big difference as you stated. But THF is still a great sub.

[Draconis]

Note: I would like it if some of the other Dark Knights who frequent this board would also test this and help me to confirm this. As each person's experience may vary. Anything learned is always useful. May it be passed down to others so that they might gain in knowledge.


Did some testing.



Spells can be cast inbetween weapon delays if you are using a Greatsword or scythe, and the timing will not be thrown off, depending on the casting time of the spell.


For example, a Mandrogora variety mob (( or as we like to call em, Kung Fu Rutabagas. )) Will hit for approx 4 attacks in Tahrongi canyon (( just threw out that area because that is where I tested it. )) inbetween your attacks with a plantreaper. Now I watched the timing of their attacks and my own, and counted how many they could get off while I cast stone, then struck with scythe, then cast water, then struck with my scythe again.

So it went like this.

Open fight, Hit with scythe....mob hits once....Cast stone...mob hits twice....Stone hits....mob hits third time...mob hits fourth time...Scythe attack.

The spells CAN be cast inbetween delay of the weapons. You just have to figure out what spell can best be utilized inbetween that delay, as some spells have a REALLY long timer. Fast cast x 2 helps as a rdm sub, as it boosts your casting speed a bit.

The main and most important thing however, is this. Spell animation. Once that spell lands, MOVE. You will go back to your original combat stance and your weapon delay won't be thrown off. If you stay standing there, watching the animation of your character's arms held out for an eternity, you will lose out on the delay. As soon as you see that casting timer complete, Move your toon. The spell will still land, but your delay won't be thrown off. Stay still...lose out on the next strike possibly.

Basically this can help add to the overall damage factor for a dark knight. They can swing their weapon, get in a spell between the delay, and swing again.

This varies greatly from Swinging your scythe...waiting for 4 attacks from a kung fu rutabaga, then swinging again.

It allows you to get in some additional damage.

And yes, Dark Knight Red Mage is Viable, however, it will nowhere near dish out the damage that a warrior can due to their active skills and the base attack boost. The damage factor can be somewhat closed by gear, but as to how huge it is at level 75, I am not certain.

The main thing with Dark Knight/Red Mage is that you are moreso using it as two factors. A: Your party drops the ball and your life, or someone elses in your party, is in danger.

B: Buff spells on yourself and enchanting spells. It's to help you take a few hits if you gain hate, which you most likley will. Blink+stoneskin+Phalanx helps wonders. And Aquaveil helps get rid of some that nasty interruption where a vital drain could save a Dark's life.

Yes you also have a good point Gravecross. But my advice is this. If you have a pure rdm in the party, let them handle the enfeeble spells. They are masters at it. However, if the rdm wants your help in debuffing, make sure to confirm with him your skill level. If you sub rdm, it is vital to have all of your appropriate magic skills capped as soon as possible. If he wants your help, discuss with them a plan and go from there. Conserving mana across the board can always help. Just know that a Dark already has some pretty poor mana levels, and Rdm doesn't give it that huge a boost. It's a decent boost, but it's not fantastic.

Dark Knight/Red Mage as a whole is a viable combination, but in the damage overall department, it won't compare with a warrior. It's a Challenging sub job yes, and lots of fun. And it can be made to work. It just takes effort and learning the ins and out of it.

As has been said before....

Best Subs:

Drk/War
Drk/Sam
Drk/Thf
--------------
Challenging Subs
----------------------

Drk/Rdm
Drk/Whm
-----------------------

The rest are pretty much a No no, save MAYBE...MAYBE black mage. The problem with subbing blm is you only gain an int boost and some more spells, and your attack power in magic goes up. That's about it.

Blm as a sub under drk isn't worth it in my opinion. Spells are there to kind of assist in a bit more of damage. Not to be an all out black mage.

The rest of em...well....you know the average opinion.

And whm is mostly used as backup healing....I haven't seen this combo in use...but I have seen alot of people with it. Mostly Taru Darks. Don't know why. They must find some use in it. Don't know what that is tho.

~Shrugs~

As for a Dark Knight, or any job being useful or useless...well...here's a quote off of another board elsewhere on the matter.

A Dark Knights job is NOT to go full out attack. A Dark Knight's JOB, is to be an ASSET to their Party, NOT a Liability.

A Dark Knight who does nothing but goes all out attack, all the time, is a dead dark knight, on a CONSTANT basis. Parties will no longer invite you because you die a ton, you spam weapon skills, you won't listen to them telling you to manage hate with a response back to them of STFU. A Dark Knight who does not listen, and takes up the view of Damage Damage Damage and nothing else....will endanger their fellow party members.

In the end, be wise in all that you Do. That is what makes the difference. It is better to err on the side of caution then to ROYALLY screw it all up. LOL




Hope this helps,

Draconis

[Awntawn]

Heh this thread is kinda outdated by updates :p The same 3 subs are still the best, but the reasons are changed :sweat: gonna have to update it sometime soon heh

[TokeN]

When you do make an update please put a sign so i know.

[Vittra]

Originally posted by Awntawn
The thing is, the monsters will take longer to kill, so the monster will be alive and kicking for a longer period of time, and therefore doing more damage, and so more MP will be spent on healing. You're small boost in healing will not make up for the amount lost for the monster staying alive longer. Not to mention that casting spells takes up swing time. DRK is the main "constant damage dealer" (THF and BLM go in bursts). There is usually only one of those classes in each party, if the "constant damage dealer" isn't constantly dealing damage, then what's doing the damage?

Usually the RDM and WHM (or BLM if there is one) divy the debuffs amongst each othere. There's really no space for you to interfere. DRK does get one useful debuff that's second to none, which is bio 2, but you get that on your own without mage sub. The debuffs that a RDM casts are: Slow, Para, Blind, Dia. Split between mages, that's only 2 each, and the effect will last longer if a mage casts it. Also, Dia II is available at higher levels for WHM and RDM, whereas DRK/RDM will still be using dia 1.

If there's no RDM present, the other mages will take care of it. If there's only 2 backliners... yes THAT's when you sub mage. But 2 backliner parties are horrible...

I think awntawn's post right there sums it all up. Whenever I see a War or Drk/whm in a party it just screams "me me me me". I think you can honestly call that a gimp by not using Dark knight to it's potential. When I get to level 60 I plan to use Samurai as a sub so I can be the most useful to a party as I can, it's conformist, but will get me invites and make me above all else, strong! If I lead a high-level party I would take a Dark Knight melee over a Dark knight mage in a second.

But everyone can do what they want, that's my 2 cents^^

[coolffxi]

hay awntawn
i saw this on a nother thred how about drk/nin?????

[albert lee]

... do you people read? look at the first page of this thread.

[coff]

HAHa I have monk subbed. I like it. i disagree wtih Awntawn when he says that it doesnt work at all. I dont know about you guys but when i use souleater, i take hits. Its always nice to get a counter during Souleater and not only cancel the enemies attack, but get an extra hit in myself. After boosting a few times i can hit for about double the damage on the first hit. I didnt plan this, i wanted to start as a monk and didnt decide i wanted to be Dark Knight till i was lvl 28 monk, and right now im too lazy to lvl up warroir or thief. The only thing that makes warrior better before 60 is berserk. And as for the STR difference, warrior sub will give you 2 more points of STR, which adds up to a whopping 1 point of attack, which will mean absolutely nothing in damage. There are better subs for sure, but monk does work.

[TokeN]

Double the attack from boost? bull shit. There is nothing bad about monk but there is very little good about it either. Counter i think is basically random, and stop using stat calculators. There is more to the game than numbers. You make WAR sound bad like that. I also cant belive you said "The only thing that makes warrior better before 60 is berserk." most of what you said was BULLSHIT!

[coff]

LOL thanks for the thoughtful response. Yes, at my level, I can get my first attack to be about double damage If i boost enough times. Youre the right the game is more than numbers, that's why the extra strength from war sub means nothing. Counter is random, but so is double attack and you get counter long before double attack. How did I make war sub sound bad? I actually said it was better than monk.

[Awntawn]

Like I said, they have benefits, but not enough. You'll notice the difference later on when your parties have difficulties pulling off 4~5 chains.

[nicksgotpecks]

drk/blm

drk/blm is a very good combo. its adds to int as well as list as spells u take a hit on how much dmg u do physical but u can Mb for good dmg after chain so for a taru drk/blm or even mithra drk/blm its a very good combo

[Kuai]

Coffa is an idiot /sigh i told you to lvl up thief or samurai

[Shiia]

Awntawn explained about the subs and its purpose as well as the benefits each class brings in the very first post. /shrug I found its very logical and usefull information. He never said monk sub was useless, nor rdm, nor blm nor anything. He said subbing War/Thf/Sam will overall bring best benefit to the Primary job, which is the Dark Knight.

Monk's benefits are good, with hp boost, and accuracy up and all. But Awntawn Clearly mentioned why its not as good as a warrior. Superior hp, counter means nothing if you are AVOIDING being hit. Accuracy boost is nice but lasts very little. He also explained should DRK starts to get hit, with warrior subbed he can activate Defender, hence reducing the hits received and reducing your attack will reduce the hate you produce. (ugh, I think I am repeating what Awntawn is saying...)

Over all his suggestion states that subbing War/Thf(situational)/Sam (if you have a thief in party) will bring Dark Knight's class to its full potential. Being Warrior the most common sub, and Thf and Sam to be depending on Party structure.

P.S. Not being dark myself. But learning about other classes can be very important so people can know what that job has to offer to the party, and if needed how you can adapt your character when partying with that job (In this case, Dark knights).

[uhsieh]

*Bump*