DNC/DRG vs. DNC/NIN vs. DNC/SAM vs. DNC/WAR

[jenova_9]

I been wondering about this!

some people say DNC/DRG is nice lv.20+ because of Jump sometimes helping add TP.
but doesn't Jump require equipping a polearm to do so?

I been thinking maybe it's best to just DNC/MNK 1-20. then DNC/NIN 20+, but that's what
everyone does. I guess because of Dual-wield and shadows.

but does that mean the job is doomed at trying something else and still be accepted by parties?

so I been look for alteratives. well DNC/SAM sounds good in my opinion because by the tiem DNC reaches 20, Store TP (learned by SAM at 10) would kick in and give a helpful boost.
in the meantime, DNC would skill up a dagger, which is their best weapon (I personally feel
they should have given DNC at least an A rating with their skill using daggers.)
Third Eye can help with some tanking if needed, and Meditate later on would help increase TP
considerably! yeah Hasso would be useless but still, I think SAM gives DNC more TP supply
than /NIN ever would.

/NIN to me sounds like a trendy distraction, a veil of delusional exaggeration (as far as convincing the masses that it's the only sub they'll accept from DNC after 20) .

It is useful for Dancers that solo, but unless DNC are stuck as the tank, /NIN really just has that stylish dual-wield convenience
many rave about. of course shadows are important but I think past 20, /SAM could be just as
useful to a DNC, even though they wouldn't survive as good as if they used /NIN. but if someone
else is tanking, who cares? DNC is flexible enough to support as other roles.

also, the rate of damage dealing from a DNC/NIN would hardly compensate against the raw TP a DNC/SAM would build up. I would say a DNC/SAM would outlast a DNC/NIN in a fight (well....not counting utsusemi........... I just mean based on natural resources instead of materialistic.


ya the most a 60+ DNC can get from /SAM is Store TP II (lv.30), does Store TP II stack on top of the first Store TP? ,
And I'm not sure if Zanshin
would help DNC attack again after missing a target like it does when SAM is used as a main,
but if it does, there's another advantage to subbing SAM.


also the other question is what people think of DNC/WAR. yes provoke is there to provide tanking
without needing to spend TP to do so. later on DNC could benefit from things like Double Attack, Berserk and Defender. but overall, most may feel that may not contribute much and DNC could
never match the tanking endurance of a WAR/ or PLD/ or NIN/WAR or DNC/NIN.




so there you have it. I would dare to try DNC/SAM but feel free to state your pros and cons about each of them. especially DNC/SAM, so if I do try it, and if it does have some good benefits, at least I'll have some reasons that may sway the party's opinions in my favor!

[Omgwtfbbqkitten]

Re: DNC/DRG vs. DNC/NIN vs. DNC/SAM vs. DNC/WAR

So, what you're saying here is that you don't want to level NIN, right?

Look, people don't just sub this because its fashionable and thoughtless, its because DNCs are asked to tank in low level PTs and DW gets DNCs additional stats from knives. And evasion gear and the Evasion Bonus traits can help make Utsusemi shadows possibly last longer. It really does help the job so get off the "anti-/NIN" train and look at it realistically.

For soloing, /NIN hardly means a damn thing unless you're fighting something really tough or an NM. In general, you will lose shadows and get tagged if you solo EXP. Its almost pointless to recast shadows soloing unless you have Violent Flourish. That JA is handy for getting your shadows back up, I can't deny that since it stuns the mob reliably. But DNC solo really starts to grow dull in the 40s. You'll see anyone that and solo and really deal damage blaze past you.

I've really grown tired of DNC solo. Its like BRD or RDM solo. Yeah, you can solo, but you take forever to kill something, so you'd rather just PT.

That is, if you can get a PT.

Because everyone wants to level DNC and everyone is still levelling DNC. You'll nary see an invite for this reason.

I actually did /RNG in the 20s when I PTed for Accuracy Bonus trait. Its pointless after 30 when DNC gets their own Acc. Bonus trait, but its helpful pre-30 for DNC or really anyone that's meleeing in their 20s.

/DRG is really for the Wyvern Earring more than it is for the Jumps. Subbing it just for Jump is kinda silly. This makes /DRG a 30+ sub for DNC, really. Goes nice with Haste Samba when you get that at 45 and even moreso if you already have Swift Belt and Raparee Harness at 50+

/WAR is 50+ for Double Attack and stuff like Berserk.

/SAM is 60+ for Meditate and Store TP traits. Its really not that helpful before then. Hasso and Seigan go to waste because DNC doesn't really have a good two-handed melee weapon and as such, you'll never see the full benefit of either ability and Third Eye will be used like you would use it only before Seigan.

I'd love to try /SAM, that is, if I have the patience to get to 60. I'm a patient guy, but even I can't stand how slowly this job solos. Its like soloing on a RDM or BRD. Sure, you can solo - but why? So you can impress your friends by taking forever to solo one mob?

If you guys can't tell, I've somewhat grown disenchanted with DNC. After enough time with it, I've reached to conclusion that I should have been levelling THF or DRG instead.

I don't mind an uphill battle in terms of invites, but damn, I'd prefer to be able to kill things faster solo than I am.

[Amberly]

Re: DNC/DRG vs. DNC/NIN vs. DNC/SAM vs. DNC/WAR

I used /drg for the jump and attack bonus till 30 when /war became a good alternitive.

but thats just me.

[LilithAngel]

Re: DNC/DRG vs. DNC/NIN vs. DNC/SAM vs. DNC/WAR

I did /DRG until 60, /SAM until 70, and /NIN the rest of the way.

That was mostly because I have the gear for it, but yeah, that's a viable route. The Wyvern set (shield, earring, cape) really makes /DRG shine, and /SAM will make you love it. Make you love it, no matter what.

/NIN 70+ is cuz of Joyeuse, plain and simple. Otherwise I'd still be /SAM.

[jenova_9]

Re: DNC/DRG vs. DNC/NIN vs. DNC/SAM vs. DNC/WAR

ya I just tried DNC/DRG in parties, some DNC/NIN partner even mentioned if I had an attack bonus, since I guess I was outdamaging them. Jump did boost TP a little at times, but still I found Merc's Knife at 20 much faster and greater rate of collecting TP than three DNC/NINs that were in the party at one time.

ya, it makes sense to save /SAM for 60+ for meditate and Store TP II, but ya, DNC/DRG is actually working out. leveled up 8 times today. now past 30.
but you know call me a spoiled child but Level Sync and Fields of Valor is really
helping out without needing to spend gear for later camps, just party with
lower levels that normally camp in dunes or especially qufim, and it really saves
you tons of gil. ya you really can't skill up, but skilling up is a piece of pie compared to leveling up. I got DRG to 50 in less than a week (compared to years ago when it took me months to level PLD that high) !

FFXI feels a lot better than it was before, but of course people still have to do their homework and take action to get into parties or organize their own. I'm not the solo xp type so it's great these parties are working out really fine!

but so far every day has been a success getting parties cashing in xp really fast thanks to stuff like Level Sync and FoV. I'll probably stick with /DRG until 60 and then switch to /SAM, which is already 37.

Spectral Jig is really fun! Divine Waltz is cool too! not all too sure about
Desperate Flourish. it's like a weigh down/gravity type of thing, but maybe it
has its uses for zoning. I'm leveling SCH on the side just for fun, but DNC is really fun fun!

[Karinya]

Re: DNC/DRG vs. DNC/NIN vs. DNC/SAM vs. DNC/WAR

Desperate Flourish will also let you recast shadows if you're /NIN. Unlock, use it, then run away and recast before the grav'd enemy reaches you.

[Ellipses]

Re: DNC/DRG vs. DNC/NIN vs. DNC/SAM vs. DNC/WAR

Jump did boost TP a little at times, but still I found Merc's Knife at 20 much faster and greater rate of collecting TP than three DNC/NINs that were in the party at one time.

I'm not sure why there's a "but" in there; the statements don't contradict each other. /NIN does not increase TP gain (by a noticeable amount), since TP per hit is adjusted for Dual Wield. Nothing to do with your choice of weapon either (except, of course, +ACC), since the TP is adjusted for the weapon's delay, too. So of course you'd gain TP faster vs. /NIN with Jump, since it's an extra full attack every time you use it.

not all too sure about Desperate Flourish. it's like a weigh down/gravity type of thing, but maybe it has its uses for zoning.

Desperate Flourish also lowers Evasion, just like other forms of Gravity. It may not be huge, especially when you're already using Quickstep, but you've got the Finishing Moves anyway, so unless you're trying to tank with Animated Flourish, what else are you going to do with them? (Until you get Reverse Flourish, that is.)

[Celeal]

Re: DNC/DRG vs. DNC/NIN vs. DNC/SAM vs. DNC/WAR

For level 1 ~ 10, I actually did DNC/PUP ... (that time WotG just released, and I actually have PUP leveled and ready for /PUP at that level range)
Level 11 ~ 19, I did DNC/WHM ... with Signet and 8mp per Cure, it fills in the gap when TP is not ready for Curing Waltz at that level range.
Bewteen level 20 ~ 29 I tried few subjob combo, at that time DNC/RNG worked best for me, since I had a hard time landing Quickstep .... (that was before S-E increase the accuarcy of Steps)
From level 30 ~ 37 I DNC/NIN just for backup tanking.

And now I has been using SAM/DNC, PLD/DNC, NIN/DNC, WAR/DNC, MNK/DNC, BLU/DNC .... I lost my interest to level DNC beyond level 37.

But as for /NIN, /SAM, /WAR, /DRG, each have their usage. IMHO, unlike certain jobs, like PLD, DNC does not locked with certain subjobs in order "to work" as long as the DNC can melee the mob and gain TP.

[Nuriko]

Re: DNC/DRG vs. DNC/NIN vs. DNC/SAM vs. DNC/WAR

I just switched to Bastok since I was rank 10 in Windy, and had the mission that called for killing 20 Copper Quadav in Beadeaux ... so I went DNC31/THF15 to boost drop rates. Any sub would work, so why not that?

[jenova_9]

Re: DNC/DRG vs. DNC/NIN vs. DNC/SAM vs. DNC/WAR

hey that's great! didn't know Desperate Flourish lowers evasion too.

does it stack with Quickstep?

[Omgwtfbbqkitten]

Re: DNC/DRG vs. DNC/NIN vs. DNC/SAM vs. DNC/WAR

hey that's great! didn't know Desperate Flourish lowers evasion too.

does it stack with Quickstep?

Yeah, Quick Step and Gravity-type effects will stack since they're counted as different debuffs. Gravity was -5% evasion of I remember correctly.

It should be noted, though, that Desperate Flourish and Gravity do not stack. Something else to piss RDMs off with, I guess.

[meSchnitzel]

Re: DNC/DRG vs. DNC/NIN vs. DNC/SAM vs. DNC/WAR

I started DNC a couple weeks ago with the sole intention of just getting it up to 37 to sub for other jobs while soloing. I didn't want to do the whole "cookie cutter" thing as so far im like level 12, havent played it too much. I started out with /MNK but didn't really like the slow delay for h2h even at the lower levels, it did let me kick some ass within a couple of hits, but i decided to try out a single dagger and sub somthing else for awhile.

I tried /THF and it didn't really do anything at all, then I tried /WAR and it did boost my damage slightly but again, nothing special there.

I finaly settled on /BLU simply because with the FoV refresh I could easily cast Pollen, Wild Oats for a Vit down, Sprout smack for a slow effect, Sandspin to hurt their acc, and at 16 I'll have Cocoon and Metallic Body and never have to rest to regain MP. I did a quick stat comparison since for the first few levels there really aren't any job abilities to be gained from subbing, other than martial arts that is. And i found that by setting my /blu spells my stats were much better all around than /thf /mnk or /war.

I only really added this to show how versatile the job can actually be, and that you don't HAVE to stick with whatever everytone else is doing. At 20 I do plan on subbing /NIN simply for the acc bonus for using 2 merc knives, but if I don't like the style of it I am totally ready to try new things.

[Vyuru]

Re: DNC/DRG vs. DNC/NIN vs. DNC/SAM vs. DNC/WAR

/Blu is pretty nice for the lower level soloing. In addition to what Schnitz mentions, you can also set the Beast Killer trait, and you just happen to be able to fight a bunch of bunnies and other poor little beasty mobs in the lower levels. Doesn't really activate a whole lot, but it's really nice when it does.

[Neverslip]

Re: DNC/DRG vs. DNC/NIN vs. DNC/SAM vs. DNC/WAR

Here's how I went. I don't have Drg level'd so I never tried it... imHo it doesn't look like it has enough to offer to put it over other options. Looks like only the earring.

EDIT.... I also don't have Blu up at all so I have no opinion on that.

Dnc/Whm ~ 1-5 just cuz ur nada but a thug... might as well get Refresh from FoV and Cure yourself like a God... er a Low-lvl god... but a god among pudly lil bunnies, worms, bats and orcs.

Dnc/Mnk ~ 5-22 (or until /nin gets Ni) /Mnk is your best shot for these levels... I tried to do /war cuz I didn't have Mnk lvl'd. But I ended up giving that up round 15 cuz /War was good for duo/trio'n at that lvl but pt's wanted /mnk and it is imHo the better option for that lvl. So I grew Mnk to 10 to get me thru.

Dnc/War & Dnc/Nin (forever... still 75) ~ just depends on the party setup... if you only have a Nin "loltank' I wanted Ni cuz I'd usually endup saving the Nin's butt and I'd rather have some shadows of my own. If ya got a Pld or a PL ... /War was nice for Berserk and a little extra "I'm actually doing something in this party" type of feel. Especialy when you're in a "Qufim worm party". I didn't find /war as useful after/during Kazham as /Nin. Solo'n... I'd go /Nin ... start with shadows up and if you're any Dancer worth their salt (not attempting something incredibly stupid) you should get enough TP up by the time your shadows go down to survive.

Special case /subs...

/Thf - of course for farming, er duh... but I also used this cuz PT invites became really sparse and I started Campaign at the very low lvl 45 while I was LFP. Sneak Attack your Quicksteps, have WS current, and eat acc food an you'll be able to get anywhere from 800-2200xp depending how much u spam macro's and die... always try for the forts.. mobs required landing 3+quicksteps. Can't remember when I stopped having to use /Thf for campaign... proly in 50-55'ish range.

/Sam - possibility for 70+. I tried this for Meditate and TP store... When I was already busy spamming macros, I found Meditate's recast seemed to usually be up when I wanted it. think you'd need lotsa TP store bonus from gear... a la Cobra Cap set and anything else. Proly would work rather well with a Joyeuse (but what doesn't?). Could be pretty useful depending on the setup and what merit abilities you have/use... unfortunately Dancer cannot use any 2H weapons I'm aware of so the greatness of Hasso is unavailable for us. T.T

.. well that's the route I took.

[Ellipses]

Re: DNC/DRG vs. DNC/NIN vs. DNC/SAM vs. DNC/WAR

I only really added this to show how versatile the job can actually be, and that you don't HAVE to stick with whatever everytone else is doing. At 20 I do plan on subbing /NIN simply for the acc bonus for using 2 merc knives, but if I don't like the style of it I am totally ready to try new things.

I wouldn't think /NIN would be all that hot at 20. 2 Merc's Knives would only give 2 more ACC over single wielding. You'd probably still get more overall out of /BLU at that level.