would DNC/WHM get more invites than DNC/MNK?

[jenova_9]

ya I was wondering about the white mage sub side of things. well ya from what I read,
DNC have no traits that offer MP regeneration. and I'm not sure what their MP pool size is
either compared to other jobs, so is subbing WHM beneficial in parties lv.10+?

but oh if WHm is subbed, I guess a 1h sword would be the best weapon for DNC/WHM since barehanded H2H would need /MNK to have any decent results. a dagger is no good until
maybe after lv.20. but maybe cure could be a good substitute and backup healing even
after eventually learning the curing dance.

so anyone think DNC/WHM and WHM/DNC are a good career to follow? oh wait, DNC are frontline healers, if one mains WHM and is the main healer, that might be very risky trying to get TP from
mob like that....hmm that means I would have to sub a 3rd job when I main WHM.....hmmmm
then again, I could also try soloing, but WHM/DNC are too risky to solo. maybe. or maybe
DNC/MNK.

ya maybe instead of focusing on WHM for healing, I could just level MNK first, then have DNC
catch up, then swap between them maybe. hmmmm. but it would be a nightmare going
MNK/DNC I think even for soloing. and no other adv. jobs unlocked either.

hmmm,
there has to be a good way to level DNC without having to depend on more than 1 other job
that's one of the basic jobs.
and the subjob should be swappable and still decent for soloing if necessary.
well I'm thinking DNC/MNK might work, but eventually MNK levels would have to catch up.

hmm maybe DNC/WHM and WHM/DNC is a better pair for progression.

what do people here think of WHM/DNC and MNK/DNC? which one seems more effective and
useful?

[Sabaron]

Re: would DNC/WHM get more invites than DNC/MNK?

Dancer and White Mage are incompatible before Aspir Samba (level 25) unless you're using juice to restore MP. Resting during a fight is not an option for a dancer. Most melees (other than PLD, BLU, and some DRKs) don't appreciate the value of Aspir Samba and it can't be used on all mobs.

[jenova_9]

Re: would DNC/WHM get more invites than DNC/MNK?

oh so I guess DNC/MNK is the best way to go huh? what's 10-20MNK/10 DNC like? can that even solo?

also, after H2H becomes useless around lv.25, I heard Dancers should switch to
Dagger, but then /MNK would be pointless.. so I'm guessing /WHM would be
best 25 and up? (cause there's no way I'm gonna level Thf, War, Blm, Rdm or Nin :p )

oh hey wait, what about DNC/BRD? and BRD/DNC that may be a good combo.

[Sabaron]

Re: would DNC/WHM get more invites than DNC/MNK?

BRD is not very good off of sub. Since you can't equip an instrument, you only get the benefit of Singing skill so your songs will be 1/2 strength. Also, the fact that your sub-job is only 1/2 level means that your songs will be about 1/4 of the strength of a bard of your level and you only get one buff. As far as buffing subs, Corsair is very much better as a buffing sub and I use it during some levels. You certainly shouldn't be spending 8 seconds of fight time singing 1/4 power buff songs.

You do have some options though:

Ranger (20+) for an early accuracy bonus from 20-30. Better hit rate = better TP gain.
Dragoon (20+) because Jump will get you a little extra TP and attack bonus will get you a little extra damage.
Warrior (10+) because Provoke can be a lifesaver at low level.
Ninja (20/24+) because a tiny delay reduction will increase your damage output (not your TP gain) and Utsusemi is great for certain applications.

I put my vote into Ranger because most daggers have around 5% TP/hit bonus and Jump is only going to get you 5% TP and (see below) every 1:30 whereas a 10 Accuracy is giving you about 5% more hit rate which gets you your 5% TP just like jump, but at the same time boosts your DoT by 5% and doesn't require you to do anything.

Archetypal Dagger Jump Damage for level 25:

Republic Dagger: 12/168: Gives you 12 damage / 90 seconds on jump: +0.133DPS

Republic Dagger 4.29 DPS * 0.05 = 0.215DPS

Therefore, the accuracy bonus is going to give you 0.215-0.133 = 0.08 more Damage per second than Jump.

Jump is really only effective for big, beefy two-handers which you are not.

Furthermore, the Accuracy bonus is increasing your TP gain rate and your DoT whereas Dual Wield is only giving you the DoT in the form of a 10% delay reduction, so continuing our analysis (with ONLY the DW delay reduction):

12/ (168 *0.9) * 60 = 4.76DPS - 4.29DPS = 0.472DPS

Therefore in terms of raw damage, /NIN's Delay reduction gives you the beefiest bonus to damage output, but it does so without imparting any significant gain in TP. The Accuracy bonus from /RNG will also get you more TP.

Now remember that COR gets Hunter's Roll at 10th level, so at 20th you can give an accuracy bonus to everyone including yourself of a very lovely +10-40 range which blows Ranger's +10 Accuracy bonus out of the water.

Go with Corsair if you have it, and if you don't Ranger (for TP) or Ninja (for DPS).

I'm actually thinking that Corsair looks like a really, really good sub-job for Dancer all the way up to Samurai at 60th for meditate. Hunter's Roll simply has excellent performance. Most Dancer's sub /NIN (presumably for Shadows and DW), but I think you'd get better mileage out of Corsair unless you need shadows for something. Dancer's can support-tank fairly decently with their Animated Flourish as needed but can't get as much hate as a /WAR.

[jenova_9]

Re: would DNC/WHM get more invites than DNC/MNK?

oh thanks! hmmm the Ranger as sub seems kind of inviting. the problem is that
I'm kinda allergic to expensive jobs (ironically Nin, Cor, Rng.) so while as a sub
they can be useful, building their levels from scratch so they catch up will be
a financial struggle. :p I'm okay with the Warrior suggestion.

but ya you're right about /BRD. I now recall how limited it was as a sub.
and there's news of a lot going /MNK. not sure about /DRG though. when
it's that job's turn to level, seeking parties may be a pain, but I hear it's good for
soloing.

OH~!!! how about DNC/BST? I'm sure it's at least one of the best options for
soloing. and when its BST's turn to level, well they are pretty much the best
at soloing. hmmm ya I just might consider DNC/BST. What's your point of view
about that combination?

okay I have a plan.

plan A is, level WHM to 18 since it has a bigger chance of getting parties frequently than MNK.
after that, get subjobs items, then Dancer.
then level Dancer and sub WHM. then when Dancer is maybe lv. 10, get Beastmaster and
level that, then career DNC/BST all the way! hmmm wonder if BST/DNC will work too.
the variation would be to main MNK to 18, then just go DNC/MNK until 10. but I doubt I'll be
able to get MNK to 18 as early as WHM.

plan B is, if PlayOnline on tuesday is able to restore my high level content ID, then I'll just get Dancer
and sub BST right away. but if not, then I'll start from scratch with plan A.

[Omgwtfbbqkitten]

Re: would DNC/WHM get more invites than DNC/MNK?

Now remember that COR gets Hunter's Roll at 10th level, so at 20th you can give an accuracy bonus to everyone including yourself of a very lovely +10-40 range which blows Ranger's +10 Accuracy bonus out of the water.

/COR's buff values are halved when subbed.

[Armando]

Re: would DNC/WHM get more invites than DNC/MNK?

/BST isn't going to work out for you unless you keep it as high as DNC.

[Sabaron]

Re: would DNC/WHM get more invites than DNC/MNK?

/COR's buff values are halved when subbed.

It doesn't say that on the Hunter's Roll page, but it does on Phantom Roll page in wiki. I haven't done terribly much COR, but even at half strength it's pretty damned good especially considering most of the time the damage output you're going to get by buffing all the melees will be better than just giving yourself +10 ACC

Hunter's Roll - FFXIclopedia - a Wikia Gaming wiki

The lowest you'll get is -5 on a Bust (does it halve the bad rolls too? -2.5?) and that only applies to the roller. +5 on an unlucky roll over 3 front-liners will probably yield more damage than +10 to just you. If you roll relatively conservatively, you can expect to be at +10 to +15 most of the time at half strength which is the equivalent of having an O-hat and a half extra Acc. This is enough accuracy especially at lower level to forgo Accuracy foods in favor of meat.

I still like /COR even at half strength.

I'm not a big fan of /BST in pt because all you can do is charm half-level mobs--no jugs, and it will negatively impact your (just your own) XP gain rate.

[ItazuraNhomango]

Re: would DNC/WHM get more invites than DNC/MNK?

I'm not a big fan of /BST in pt because all you can do is charm half-level mobs--no jugs, and it will negatively impact your (just your own) XP gain rate.

I'm no fan of /BST in parties either, but you have very bad info there.

1. Job/BST can charm Even Match. In fact, I saw a NIN/BST regularly charm Tough bats in Korroloka Tunnel. It's commonly speculated /BST's charm power is capped at main job or BST's, which ever is lower.

2. Charmed pets no longer incur direct exp penalty, but their levels are account for. e.g. Lv.42 pet in a Lv.38-41 party, the party's exp is calculated like it's a Lv.42 party, thus lowering the exp return slightly. If using Lv.41 pet, then no problem.

[jenova_9]

Re: would DNC/WHM get more invites than DNC/MNK?

oh okay. well I'll figure something out.

[Sabaron]

Re: would DNC/WHM get more invites than DNC/MNK?

Here's what it says at wiki about Charm:

When Beastmaster is set as your sub job, Charm will be based on the main level of your Beastmaster job. Example: If your Beastmaster job is only level 37 and you set it as a sub for another level 75 job, even tho a mob may con Easy Prey to you at 75, it would be considered Incredibly Tough for your 37 Beastmaster and it would be next to impossible to Charm it. However, if you're Beastmaster job were level 75 and you set it as a sub to another level 75 job, and a mob was Easy Prey, it would also be considered Easy Prey to your level 75 Beastmaster making it just as easy to Charm as if your main job were set to Beastmaster.

That seems like a bug... I haven't played BST at all so I have no idea.

[Armando]

Re: would DNC/WHM get more invites than DNC/MNK?

It's been that way since forever. If it were a bug, I'd like to think they would've fixed it already.

[jenova_9]

Re: would DNC/WHM get more invites than DNC/MNK?

well that can be considered a special rule they gave BST.
which is a good thing.

[Sabaron]

Re: would DNC/WHM get more invites than DNC/MNK?

It's been that way since forever. If it were a bug, I'd like to think they would've fixed it already.

I realize that, but still... It seems like awfully specialized treatment for a single job. However, SCH gets a similar bonus with its Arts. It just seems funny that it's the only basic ability that is based off of the job's level as main even when subbed.

[jenova_9]

Re: would DNC/WHM get more invites than DNC/MNK?

well each job has its quirks.

the charm level thing for BST is it's own special sauce.
it would be so frustrating without that advantage.