Subjobs? What're you using?

[LilithAngel]

Re: Subjobs? What're you using?

You could toss in Wyvern Targe for an even round 6% total (not like you were using that off hand slot for anything anyways, right?), and Wyvern Mantle for more Attack (the better to not hit for 0 with). The earring isn't the only item the benefits from /DRG, and the set itself is a good, solid reason to do so. It is about 30 that /DRG starts to become the powerhouse that it is for DNC, so before then, I can see MNK being a solid choice.

As other have pointed out, and you have seen, the problem with DW versus Haste is the TP discrepancies, and since DNC is all about TP, it needs the better outcome. In this particular situation, /DRG > /NIN.

/SAM still wins at 60 tho. Always.

As for WS usage, I usually wait until I'm fairly sure I won't need it, and I also have a full stack of FMs to eat afterwards. I usually hit 300% waiting for said conditions. I've been using Cyclone, and seeing a consistent 150-250 point return on it, then using Reverse Flourish to get back 60%. That's been a rather solid strategy thus far, and /SAM at 60 will only reinforce that by allowing me to either regain more after a WS, or WS more by having a second store of TP ready to go afterwards.

[Arris]

Re: Subjobs? What're you using?

Well I just tried out /SAM in a pt setup and didn't like the TP return even with reverse flourish and meditate. The 3 min timer when your killing something very few sec to a min seemed to take forever just for meditate. I'm back up curing so with no shadows there goes that 60 TP just got for meditate. My steps and hits, hit less with one dagger and EVEN with hand-to-hand then with dual wield. So I'm looking at far less TP return anyways. And this is with food and all my acc gear on. Even with the job traits that /SAM offered I still don't see it as useful and I won't prolly sub it again even to solo.

Everyone is looking at the TP return for meditate and reverse flourish but your forgetting you'll be useing that TP as soon as you get it. Haste samba is what 40 TP, CW's 20-50 TP. Using steps is 10 TP and if you don't hit those steps your looking at using 10-30 TP for about a 20 TP return do the math. I've tried /WAR /THF /SAM /NIN /MNK all in PT setups. I'm even partial to subbing /MNK over /NIN. But I think I'll just stick to /NIN for pts and then w/e soloing.

~DNC 74

[Omgwtfbbqkitten]

Re: Subjobs? What're you using?

Well I just tried out /SAM in a pt setup and didn't like the TP return even with reverse flourish and meditate. The 3 min timer when your killing something very few sec to a min seemed to take forever just for meditate. I'm back up curing so with no shadows there goes that 60 TP just got for meditate. My steps and hits, hit less with one dagger and EVEN with hand-to-hand then with dual wield. So I'm looking at far less TP return anyways. And this is with food and all my acc gear on. Even with the job traits that /SAM offered I still don't see it as useful and I won't prolly sub it again even to solo.

I'm calling "placebo" on this, you're looking for any reason to reach back for Utsusemi. Losing the stats off an offhand dagger wouldn't matter as much as you're making it sound. Moreover, there's a TON or -enmity gear out there for DNC, if you're getting too much hate for curing, you're curing too much or not gearing properly for the hate you'll get.

I suspect you're falling into the same trap a lot of healers fall into, you've decided that the highest tier cure you've got is the best one to use. This would also get you the most hate and would support your reasoning for /NIN.

Its actually counter-productive to the use to Drain Samba and be topping of the HP of your allies with Waltzes, that little space in thier HP bars helps them inflict more damage because its a space to fill.

You're not a doctor, you're not even a WHM, RDM or SCH, you're the battle medic. Its your job to keep allies fighting. Keeping them healthy is another matter completely.

[Tokagawa]

Re: Subjobs? What're you using?

This is confusing.......what exactly is a dancer's job in a party? Is it to heal or to cause damage? I keep reading that people have dancer's in their party heal but if they are going to heal why would they sub something used to cause damage like ninja or warrior when they could just sub another support job like white mage or bard?

[LilithAngel]

Re: Subjobs? What're you using?

Because they don't need to use subs like that to perform their roles as healers. As a matter of fact, it may very well take away from their ability to do so, ironically enough.

A Dancer's ability to heal and support the party comes completely from TP, and the gaining of such. The best way to maximize this is to equip combat subs like Dragoon, Samurai, Warrior, and Ninja. Jobs like Bard, White Mage, Corsair, etc, do not have the native combat abilities that would be needed to support the Dancer's main role of "hit shit, do damage, get TP, keep party alive." Not to any noticeable extent like the aforementioned jobs would.

That's not to say that those jobs don't come with their own perks, but in a party environment, they perform worse than what a melee sub would.

[Ellipses]

Re: Subjobs? What're you using?

This is confusing.......what exactly is a dancer's job in a party? Is it to heal or to cause damage?

Yes.

I keep reading that people have dancer's in their party heal but if they are going to heal why would they sub something used to cause damage like ninja or warrior when they could just sub another support job like white mage or bard?

Dancers heal and do all their other mojo through the use of TP, which you get through hitting the mobs, causing damage. White Mage and Bard don't help you do damage or gain TP (Bard, a little, but not enough to justify it over more melee-oriented subjobs). In fact, they'd slow it down a little. Time spent casting spells (WHM) or singing songs (BRD) is time spent not hitting the mob.

In general (I'm saying "in general" because there are exceptions), BRD sucks as a subjob for anything, and WHM sucks as a subjob for anything that doesn't have MP (Dancer doesn't have MP).

With BRD as your subjob, you can only put one buff song up instead of two, it won't be at full power (and neither will your debuff songs), and you're limited to the song list of a BRD half your level.

With WHM as your subjob, if you don't have native MP anyway, you have a piddly MP pool and underpowered cures for your level (the status cures are handy, though). And once you're out of that small amount of MP, /WHM becomes completely worthless.

[Tokagawa]

Re: Subjobs? What're you using?

Oh......so its like a white mage who gets their magic power from hitting shit insted of resting? lol interesting =p

[MrMageo]

Re: Subjobs? What're you using?

Its acctually more like a RDM/WHM who gets its power from beating a mob instead of refresh/convert/resting. Of course /SAM meditate is kina like convert.

[Krystic]

Re: Subjobs? What're you using?

So a DNC/MNK isnt as effective as /NIN even if u stick with H2H throughout? Is it second best to /NIN?

[Omgwtfbbqkitten]

Re: Subjobs? What're you using?

H2H is D skill weapon for DNC, its pretty much time to toss those aside after /MNK if you even bothered to stick with it to 30. As you get higher its best to go with your highest rated weapon which, in this case, would be daggers.

Also, /NIN is not the "best" subjob, its merely one of the options. SAM is far and away the best of the subs, but like any sub, its all situational.

[Krystic]

Re: Subjobs? What're you using?

Sorry for sounding noobish, but the D skill in H2H only affects the ending damage output right? Does it affect accuracy at all? If DNC isnt really a true DD, couldnt they keep /MNK and use H2H for the TP gain?

[Omgwtfbbqkitten]

Re: Subjobs? What're you using?

Sorry for sounding noobish, but the D skill in H2H only affects the ending damage output right? Does it affect accuracy at all? If DNC isnt really a true DD, couldnt they keep /MNK and use H2H for the TP gain?

Skill affects accuracy with the weapon as well.

[Eiyoko]

Re: Subjobs? What're you using?

I'm thinking about using /DRG, but for now I'm using /WAR.

Someone on my LS flipped me off for not using /NIN but I don't have the money to keep it up let alone level it to 30, so I said screw it.

[VZX]

Re: Subjobs? What're you using?

IMO, DNC should focus on healing only or DD only. Switching from 1 focus to another is not the best idea.

[Omgwtfbbqkitten]

Re: Subjobs? What're you using?

IMO, DNC should focus on healing only or DD only. Switching from 1 focus to another is not the best idea.

Its easier to balance both aspects as the job grows past 60.

DD-only DNC aren't worth inviting, if I want a dagger DD I'll get a THF - they'll do better. I'll concede DNC is somewhat reduced to DD in Caedarva Mire, but if they're not pitching in Cures elsewhere, I'll look for someone to replace them that will.

If you play it right, as DNC/SAM, weaponskills are a viable option provided you have Reverse Flourish and/or Meditate set up to restore TP for curing. Pre-60, if you're playing a DD DNC, you're probably going to build a bad reputation for it and not get invites.

The underlying point to the addition of DNC and SCH was to allieviate the lack of healers in the game, DD and Crowd-Control elements are just a bonus to these jobs. Put SCH and DNC together and you never need a RDM, BRD or COR in PT. Pair them up with other jobs and they'll compliment other just as well and remove pressure on backline healing. DNC gives up thier TP to save mages MP.