Stop seeking and start tanking!

[wrongfeifong]

I notice one big issue about most dnc players.
They enjoy seeking when there is over 6 dncs on seek!.

I can tell you ... stop seeking and make use of the situation!.

Any pt with 3 DNC 24-50 are as effective then a PT with setup tank + refresh + whm. Heck it is even more effective then having a BRD in.

why ?
with 3 DNCer that know how to voke right, they can switch aggro and utsumei up perfectly even on (war) monsters. While DNC also have a pretty decent evasion skill and also TP gainning. Meanwhile, you will find yourself always use the "steps" which generate alot finishing moves (once its lv.5 its give 1 per step only). Its no problem to hold aggro for the little time.

DNC with decent gears are pretty decent DPS (come on daggers +1 are ALL CHEAP) While i suggest you use "atk" food instead of acc food and stock up on the Dex + acc gears. (don't get woodsman! get sniper rings!)

After you gather 3 DNC... any classes after those 3 will works! you don't need a WHM, nor a RDM, nor a BRD... just go with DPS!. (of course better if you have a raiser too just in case but not very likely).

Hence,

"STOP STICKING TO OLD STRATEGIES" and make do with what you get then having 10 DNC seeking! (i personnally start a pt whenever 3 dnc is available.)

[Kailea]

Re: Stop seeking and start tanking!

I agree, well on the stop seeking part.... I dont really think you need all that +1 stuff -.- I have not seeked once as DNC, me and a friend have been duoing

we have gone from level 1 all the way to 27 (so far) duoing and never seeking, she goes DNC/NIN and I go DNC/MNK,and we tear through Ts and can fight VTs with medium difficulty.

[LyonheartLakshmi]

Re: Stop seeking and start tanking!

Any pt with 3 DNC 24-50 are as effective then a PT with setup tank + refresh + whm. Heck it is even more effective then having a BRD in.

why ?
with 3 DNCer that know how to voke right, they can switch aggro and utsumei up perfectly even on (war) monsters.

I think the key here is "that know how to voke right". Theoretically, 3 WAR/NINs can pick the right kind of mob and bounce hate between them, and the rest of the party can be filled in with whatever. In practice though, unless you're staticing with players that you know well, you're having to place a lot of faith in some random stranger.

[Evion]

Re: Stop seeking and start tanking!

This is soo true. It's even true for the situation of a person who is always seeking, having any other job than a tank job. Because, on Hades, tanks NEVER wait for PTs...

[Omgwtfbbqkitten]

Re: Stop seeking and start tanking!

I really don't like the idea of encouraging DNCs to tank or share tanking, given an overwhelming number of DNCs out there now, its more practical than ever to let a SAM or WAR tank in the absense of a PLD or NIN pre-50. SAM and WAR can both hold hate against DNCs pretty easily if the DNCs aren't stupid.

Use Animated Flourish when a NIN or WAR/NIN's shadows are down pre-37. DO NOT use it when you have PLD, SAM/WAR or WAR/MNK, because you're only complicating thier hate control. You CURE people, that already puts you high on the hate list. When those shadows go down, you're even more paper-thin than a NIN and that means some mage is gonna have to dump a big cure into you and pull hate to the backline, which no one wants.

Seen it happen time and again. You're not a tank class at pre-74, not even close.

[Electricity Gone Human]

Re: Stop seeking and start tanking!

On top of what BBQ said, shouldn't the thread title be said to all WARs and SAMs pre-50?

[Omgwtfbbqkitten]

Re: Stop seeking and start tanking!

On top of what BBQ said, shouldn't the thread title be said to all WARs and SAMs pre-50?

Exactly, SAM and WAR have the defenses to take the damage better than a DNC would, especially with DNCs out there helping cure the frontline, which makes things a lot easier for jobs like RDM, SCH, SMN and BLM to dish out thier MP for damage and enfeebling purposes rather than sink it completely into curing people.

Post Seigan, I think SAM can tank just fine to 50. Third Eye can be wonky, but sometimes it can also be better than shadows in regards to physical damage. Both WAR and SAM can put down the damage to get hate and keep it fairly well.

So while DNCs are lookng for excuses to DD and tank, WAR and SAM are starting to run out of excuses not to tank. Tanking PTs with DNCs curing me is how I finished my SAM sub. Its reliable and it works, so this "MP Sponge" rubbish could become a thing of the past, provided DNC's population stays healthy.

[Evion]

Re: Stop seeking and start tanking!

With the cure and drain dances, DNC makes crappy tanks more acceptable. With 3X DNC, they should be able to do fine with a little backup...

[Zempten]

Re: Stop seeking and start tanking!

I agree. People need to learn to start PTs rather then just seek and go AFK when there is enough people to start a PT.

However, I disagree with starting an all DNC PT or anything over 2 DNCs in a PT. I say this b/c your limiting your Finishing Moves. With 2 DNCs, it's incredibily easy to hit lvl 5 steps and after that you only get 1 Finishing Move per step. Sure you can use Stutter Step but even that gets to lvl 5 quickly if the other DNC is spamming his/her steps every 15 seconds like you. Also your better off with 4 other DDs instead otherwise you'll be killing kinda slow.

2 DNCs can main heal anything pretty much (spam Bomb Toss, spam Cursed Sphere...etc). I usually grab another DNC and get down to buisness.

As far as DNCs tanking, so far for me it's only worked up to lvl 50. After that it's pointless, DDs just steal hate from you despite you spamming cure. So I'd rather use my Finishing Moves for something else like Reverse Flourish while spamming waltzs on them. I don't really recommend ATK food (at least not yet) b/c I find swapping ATK/accuracy gear appropriately and eatting Sushi seems to work better for my steps. Plus, I can equip my Rajas for the Store TP+5 instead of a Sniper.

[Evion]

Re: Stop seeking and start tanking!

Um, yes?

[VZX]

Re: Stop seeking and start tanking!

Given enough life support 2 hander will destroy the mob faster than any other DD.
I'm not sure how true that statement is after the latest 2 hander tone down.

I remember I did 11k/hr at one point in Yhoator jungle while lvling my DRG sub with WHM75 support. I tried to grab SAM on the other day and went through 6-6.7k/hr in yuhtunga jungle duoing T-low VT gobs/mandy

[Nymphadora]

Re: Stop seeking and start tanking!

I notice one big issue about most dnc players.
They enjoy seeking when there is over 6 dncs on seek!.

I can tell you ... stop seeking and make use of the situation!.

Any pt with 3 DNC 24-50 are as effective then a PT with setup tank + refresh + whm. Heck it is even more effective then having a BRD in.

why ?
with 3 DNCer that know how to voke right, they can switch aggro and utsumei up perfectly even on (war) monsters. While DNC also have a pretty decent evasion skill and also TP gainning. Meanwhile, you will find yourself always use the "steps" which generate alot finishing moves (once its lv.5 its give 1 per step only). Its no problem to hold aggro for the little time.

DNC with decent gears are pretty decent DPS (come on daggers +1 are ALL CHEAP) While i suggest you use "atk" food instead of acc food and stock up on the Dex + acc gears. (don't get woodsman! get sniper rings!
After you gather 3 DNC... any classes after those 3 will works! you don't need a WHM, nor a RDM, nor a BRD... just go with DPS!. (of course better if you have a raiser too just in case but not very likely).

Hence,

"STOP STICKING TO OLD STRATEGIES" and make do with what you get then having 10 DNC seeking! (i personnally start a pt whenever 3 dnc is available.)

I agree in part, but I don't think any more than a couple DNC's per party are needed. There should be a variety of useful jobs in a pt which would result in faster exp. and a better experience.

And I don't think you'd really need a lot of +1 gear. As long as your gear isn't unreasonably gimped, it should do nicely, considering that you've chosen it wisely.

[wrongfeifong]

Re: Stop seeking and start tanking!

I am still talking about Pre-50 here.... I am not @ 50 yet still lagging in the 40s.

Dnc can be better tanks over war/nin because evasion is higher, sam on the other hand have higher evasion but they are hard to voke off each other (try a 3 sam pt and see)

The reason i am saying all this is because dnc are a self-curing class that doesn't shout out "Please heal me". While as a whm, i would be very self-aware that healing a overhealing a SAM will cause my life. DNC on the other hands will NOT (they can heal themselves or each other). While same as a pld, healing yourself give alot hate.

Meanwhile having 3 dnc doesn't only tank but also fullfill the "Healing" side. Hence its better then war/nin and sam overall in a 3 way pting. Of course 2 is enough but 3 is for ensurance.

WHILE you can tank and keep heals... what is the need of redmage refresh or a brd's ballad anymore? While dnc are doing DPS (pretty decent dps with+1 daggers (don't argue with me ...+1 +2 are cheap already) They add up to what the "rdm" and "whm" doesn't do in DPS.

You can get war/nin x3 ..then you will waste a space for a whm while high "organization is NEEDED .. a voke order" ... DNC on the otherhand DOESN'T need it. "simply cure yourself to gain hate... voke is not necessary most of the time" is what DNC does HENCE to answer ALL your ranting about sam and war being same as DNC... NO... DNC is better tank overall because you have better hate control over war and sam.

Meanwhile you don't have to rest for mp is a bonus. And i do like atk food because i am in almost the best gear you can find for acc for 40s (except 2x sniper +1... not possible... )

Why i am posting this? i am piss how i ask 3 out of 5 dncs and they all say "Dnc can't tank.. i rather seek" one of them even tell me "/thf is better /nin is gay i can "critical steps".....

[ItazuraNhomango]

Re: Stop seeking and start tanking!

You can get war/nin x3 ..then you will waste a space for a whm while high "organization is NEEDED .. a voke order" ... DNC on the otherhand DOESN'T need it.

Yeah, DNC just lack the damage output of a WAR/NIN. I'd rather get rid of two DNCs and replace with two WAR/NINs, and put the DNC on curing duty.

"simply cure yourself to gain hate... voke is not necessary most of the time" is what DNC does HENCE to answer ALL your ranting about sam and war being same as DNC... NO... DNC is better tank overall because you have better hate control over war and sam.

Curing for most of the enmity? When I was leveling WAR in the 30's, I regularly stole the monsters away from good tanks with WS, and bad tanks with just regular melee hits. Sometimes, Provoke didn't even budge the critters after a strong Sturmwind. That was before two-handed weapon adjustment.

I'm a bit doubtful that DNC relying only on cures can tank if the party has a strong DD.

[Karinya]

Re: Stop seeking and start tanking!

I agree in part, but I don't think any more than a couple DNC's per party are needed. There should be a variety of useful jobs in a pt which would result in faster exp. and a better experience.

Ideally one, I think. Sambas don't stack and there are stacking limits on Steps. Sure, more dancers can do more waltzes, but at that point I think you'd benefit more from fitting in some mages who can buff, enfeeble and/or do defense-ignoring magic damage.

And I don't think you'd really need a lot of +1 gear. As long as your gear isn't unreasonably gimped, it should do nicely, considering that you've chosen it wisely.

Yes, that's usually true. +1 weapons are often nice, but in the specific case of DNC it's worth noting that they *won't* improve your TP gain (unless they have acc built in) - they have a little less delay than NQs, but gain correspondingly less TP per hit. (You will still do slightly more damage, and I think recover slightly more HP with Drain Samba.)