TP: Save it or Blow it?

[Sevv]

Re: TP: Save it or Blow it?

DNC Forums: The New Rdm Battleground?

I have seen dnc alot 60+ was permaing with a jp dnc like 5 days after the expansion and he was 60. He was just dd/support, but his ws were decent. Personally I think it will be a party to party and player to player decision.

[Malacite]

Re: TP: Save it or Blow it?

To RDMS: Shut up and wait patiently & quietly until SE reveals your new front line spells >_>


Now as for those numbers Ifrit, I'm highly suspicious of those WS numbers... sounds like a tard THF at work, as I just can not see a DNC out dmg a THF on dagger WS.

[Zempten]

Re: TP: Save it or Blow it?

I don't like the options of the poll. Personally, I would say the most important is to find a balance between the two options give (WS @ 100% & Store TP). It's important/beneficial to always do the most you you can with the job you play and I feel that applies to DNC's option of WSing along with their other options.

[Sabaron]

Re: TP: Save it or Blow it?

I don't like the options of the poll. Personally, I would say the most important is to find a balance between the two options give (WS @ 100% & Store TP). It's important/beneficial to always do the most you you can with the job you play and I feel that applies to DNC's option of WSing along with their other options.

That's really what the first option is intended to mean. I didn't mean "don't dance... WS!". I meant Dance as appropriate, but if you should happen to bank 100, blast it unless you need something. When my eyes see a DNC with 250 TP all the time, I say to myself... "Hmm, couldn't that TP have been used to cause 800 damage?"

[Nuriko]

Re: TP: Save it or Blow it?

It's just too bad DNC can't hold back TP on WS like under SAM's 2-hour ... then this discussion would be pointless, as DNC could do both in a way.

[Sabaron]

Re: TP: Save it or Blow it?

The not "having your cake and eating it too" thing is inherently part of Dancer's style. I noticed a good portion of the thread is focusing on low-level and main-healer stuff. Perhaps we can focus on 50+ and 60+ wherein the DNC becomes less desirable as a main healer because they can't cast Haste or Refresh. I realize they have solutions for both of these problems, but they're not as good as the solutions provided by say RDM, WHM, BRD, and COR.

What about after the Dancer gets Meditate and Reverse Flourish? At higher level, it is likely that the dancer will be with another healer type. What about the interplay between DNC and the existing HP Gurus: WHM, RDM, SMN, and BLU?

AND the things no one has mentioned....

Building Flourish

Wild Flourish

Both of these items indicate that at higher level, SE does in fact intend Dancer to unleash the deadly Dancing Edge and Evisceration WSs.

Anyone know how exactly a Wild Flourish "prepares" a target for skillchain?

[Omgwtfbbqkitten]

Re: TP: Save it or Blow it?

Man, you just could NOT resist throwing that in there, could you?

Well then, I feel perfectly justified, as a RDM, in saying: "Just because I can main heal doesn't always mean I should, something the rest of the community has a hard time accepting."

Have fun seeking.

Anyway.

My point is - regarding dancer more specifically - your job exists and lacks refresh because you can get easy and ample amounts of TP. Guess what curing with TP means for mages? I means RDM, SMN and SCH don't have to be a cure bucket and you get to hit stuff.

The reason why I've been hyping /SAM is that it will, coupled with Reverse Flourish (1) let you pop off WS at 60+ if the situation allows and (2) scare up TP for curing and buffs as needed. You give up shadows and the ability to backup tank, sure, and you dont draw any benefit from Hasso and Seigan either, but you get TP and lots of it.

I've already seen DNCs sit on thier TP or WS in PTs and I'll tell you right now as a SCH, RDM or any mage that my MP does not appreciate that. When DNC is done right, everyone gets to have part of the cake in thier job.

[ItazuraNhomango]

Re: TP: Save it or Blow it?

I'm highly suspicious of those WS numbers... sounds like a tard THF at work, as I just can not see a DNC out dmg a THF on dagger WS.

Where did I say DNC was out damaging THF? My post clearly indicated the THF's WS was out doing the DNC's by a significant margin. Yet, the DNC's WS's (when s/he used them) were quite decent.

I didn't check the THF's gear, but I remember thinking the dancer using pretty decent stuff (Peacock Amulet, and I think Rajas Ring, etc.). Even if you do believe the THF sucked, it doesn't change the fact that the DNC's WS was a lot stronger than mine (PLD), and can be used to contribute significant damage when needed.

Can't say if the majority of DNCs have a good set up for Dancing Edge, but it's obvious that Dancing Edge does not suck for the DNCs with the right gear.

[Solymir]

Re: TP: Save it or Blow it?

I voted don't ws, however, everything is situational. If you are fighting a mob that can potentially hurt everyone with an AoE I would definitely save all TP, if not make a judgement call on ws usage.

[Zempten]

Re: TP: Save it or Blow it?

That's really what the first option is intended to mean. I didn't mean "don't dance... WS!". I meant Dance as appropriate, but if you should happen to bank 100, blast it unless you need something. When my eyes see a DNC with 250 TP all the time, I say to myself... "Hmm, couldn't that TP have been used to cause 800 damage?"

Ah I see, then I'll choose #1.

Building Flourish and Wild Flourish seem like something DNCs can focus on if there is someone else main healing or you got TP to spare. They do look like fun and not something to rule out completely.

Oh Wild Flourish works sorta like a WS. For example, You do Wild Flourish and say someone else does a WS a SC can occur. Exact details on what Wild Flourish chains with are unknown atm but there are some reports over at KI & BG. So far from what they say it can work with . .

Wild Flourish -> Penta Thrust = Gravitation

Wild Flourish -> Guillotine = Induration

Wild Flourish -> Combo = Fusion
Wild Flourish -> Shoulder Tackle= Nothing
Wild Flourish -> Backhand Blow = Detonation
Wild Flourish -> Spining Attack = Liquafaction
Wild Flourish -> Raging Fist = Fusion

Wild Flourish -> Sidewinder = Fragmentation

Wild Flourish -> Sturmwind = Fragmentation

Wild Flourish -> Mercy Stroke = Nothing
Wild Flourish -> Shark bite = Nothing
Wild Flourish -> Evisceration = Transfiction
Wild Flourish -> Dancing Edge = Scission

Wild Flourish -> Rampage = Scission


Haven't tested these myself, so no guarentee

[Sabaron]

Re: TP: Save it or Blow it?

Ah I see, then I'll choose #1.

Building Flourish and Wild Flourish seem like something DNCs can focus on if there is someone else main healing or you got TP to spare. They do look like fun and not something to rule out completely.

Oh Wild Flourish works sorta like a WS. For example, You do Wild Flourish and say someone else does a WS a SC can occur. Exact details on what Wild Flourish chains with are unknown atm but there are some reports over at KI & BG. So far from what they say it can work with . .

Wild Flourish -> Penta Thrust = Gravitation

Wild Flourish -> Guillotine = Induration

Wild Flourish -> Combo = Fusion
Wild Flourish -> Shoulder Attack = Nothing
Wild Flourish -> Subtle Blow = Detonation
Wild Flourish -> Spining Attack = Liquafaction
Wild Flourish -> Raging Fist = Fusion

Wild Flourish -> Sidewinder = Fragmentation

Wild Flourish -> Sturmwind = Fragmentation

Wild Flourish -> Mercy Stroke = Nothing
Wild Flourish -> Shark bite = Nothing
Wild Flourish -> Evisceration = Transfiction
Wild Flourish -> Dancing Edge = Scission

Wild Flourish -> Rampage = Scission


Haven't tested these myself, so no guarentee

So Wild Flourish basically works like a WS that has all 8 elements attached to it? Does it do any damage of its own?

[ItazuraNhomango]

Re: TP: Save it or Blow it?

This is pretty exciting; as long as a Dancer has enough finishing moves saved up, he can just wait for any DD to give a TP call, and start an SC? Wow.

[Karinya]

Re: TP: Save it or Blow it?

It can open Gravitation, Fusion *and* Fragmentation? Holy crap! (No Distortion though - I guess they didn't want DNC soloing level 2 SC, even though BLU can solo level 3. Well, you could probably WF > Shadowstitch for Frag, but it'd be a pretty sad amount of damage.)

Wild Flourish -> Shoulder Attack = Nothing

Assuming you mean Shoulder Tackle, that's odd; it has the same primary property as Slugshot, Sidewinder and Sturmwind. Maybe the timing was off or something?

Wild Flourish -> Subtle Blow = Detonation

Assuming you mean Backhand Blow, which fits the overall pattern.

My theory based on this data: WF has a SC property of Det, Liq, Ind, (Tran), Sci, (Imp), Rev, Comp (in that order) - except that if the closing WS has multiple properties, it's the priority order of the WS that controls, not the priority order of WF (as shown by Spinning Attack). The Tran and Imp can't be activated because everything it reacts to would also have reacted to something higher in the order, but I put them there because they fit. The inclusion of Rev - allowing it to open Induration, as yet unobserved - is a conjecture based on the pattern.

Therefore I predict:
Wild Flourish > Asuran Fists = Liquefaction
WF > Dragon Kick = nothing
WF > Howling Fist = Transfixion
WF > Gekko = Fragmentation
WF > Kasha = Gravitation
WF > Spinning Slash = nothing
WF > Ground Strike = nothing
WF > Wheeling Thrust = nothing
WF > Impulse Drive = Induration
WF > Guillotine = Induration
WF > Raging Rush = Induration

(Confirming at least one of those last three would be nice...)

[Zempten]

Re: TP: Save it or Blow it?

It does no DMG from my understanding.

I'm sorry I'm just 53 DNC and don't have WF yet. When I get to 60, hopefully end of this week after finals I'll do some tests with those you ask for Karinya.

[ioshua]

Re: TP: Save it or Blow it?

After reading the thread, it looks like this to me.

1) Are you main healer?
a) Yes: Don't WS
b) No: Continue to 2

2) Are you backup healer?
a) Yes + AE: Don't WS
b) Yes + No AE w/ weak main healer: WS rarely
c) Yes + No AE w/ strong main healer: WS often
d) No: WS like crazy

Mostly it's based on the assumptions that dancers in a heal-heavy situation will gear themselves for +Cha in place of +Melee and that they will also have less periods where they are fat and happy over 100%.

Good players of any class know how to adjust to any role their class can provide. That's one of the things that makes them good. Saying "No, you're never allowed to do X, Y or Z even though your class is more than capable of doing so" comes off very head-in-the-sand.