/MNK.... Um, what?

[Omgwtfbbqkitten]

Practically every DNC is /MNK on my server right now. I don't really see the point. H2H adds delay and while Martial Arts reduces it and Haste Samba is nice, wouldn't meleeing with a dagger still be faster TP?

I levelled alongside a nearby dancer while I was swinging my dagger and I swear I was getting 3 hits for each two he did or close to it. H2H and DW both increase delay, so I don't see the benefit of /MNK or /NIN early on, though /NIN could be better with more DW traits and DW/Haste gear.

[Ellipses]

Re: /MNK.... Um, what?

I imagine it depends on whether they're soloing or partying, and what kind of parties they're in. And whether they're getting PLed to try and race to 75. Early on, DoT with H2H and /MNK is going to be better than dagger, just like THF/MNK works so well before Viper Bite. People rushing through the levels probably aren't too concerned with Dancer's actual skills, so DoT might be more of a concern than TP gain.

[Caspian]

Re: /MNK.... Um, what?

I'm not totally clear on the mechanics of DNC...instead of ws'ing, they use their TP for dances and such, is that right?
If thats the case and its not like Ellipses suggested (which is probably pretty right on for a lot of people just PL'ing it to 75), then a dagger with as low delay as possible would be the best bet. They're not gonna be hitting the TP floor H2H, but with a super fast dagger, they could. Other than that, TP scales to delay so it theoretically shouldn't make a difference what they do, so long as they're not whiffing constantly.

[tdh]

Re: /MNK.... Um, what?

I believe the theory of it is that they're going to get more TP from landing 2 punches than you are from 1 Dagger. Find some Knuckles with a decent delay, sub MNK for Martial Arts, and you should be fine. From what I've heard, DNC doesn't have a horrible H2H skill, combined with the fact that most people who are flocking to DNC already have jobs and combat skills cap'd for some time.

Of course this is only the speculation of myself and another LS mate when we noticed the same thing. Personally, I would have gone WHM or BLU. But the our MNK speculation seems to have merit.

[Balfree]

Re: /MNK.... Um, what?

From what I understand is that since MNK normally deals the most damage in the low levels, they get more out of Drain Samba, makes sense... it will probably turn into /war /nin or /thf eventually as they level up.

10 TP is hardly a problem to get, with any weapon or sub.

[Armando]

Re: /MNK.... Um, what?

H2H and DW both increase delay, so I don't see the benefit of /MNK or /NIN early on, though /NIN could be better with more DW traits and DW/Haste gear.

Multi-hit procs aside, your overall Delay per weapon will always be faster dual wielding two similar weapons than single-wielding one of them. Likewise the fact that H2H lumps its hits in sets of 2 doesn't change much.

H2H and DW both increase delay, so I don't see the benefit of /MNK or /NIN early on, though /NIN could be better with more DW traits and DW/Haste gear.

Since TP scales with Delay, H2H isn't going to have an advantage over daggers.

That said, daggers blow pretty goddamned hard before Federation Knife at 25. Also, according to FFXIclopedia, Dancers have D-ranked H2H and Sword (compare to THF's E H2H and D Sword.) Although I doubt DNCs can WS at a rate worth mentioning, dagger WS's totally suck 'til Dancing Edge if you're not THF main, since all Viper Bite does is double your Attack. I'm guessing they're using H2H for damage, but truth be told, like THFs, they should really be using swords, and at 25+ they should just use daggers.

They'd be better off using /RNG for the +10 Accuracy from 20-30 in my opinion. But most subs don't provide much in the 10-20 range.

[Malacite]

Re: /MNK.... Um, what?

ppl are doing it on my server too... it's weird.

Since DNC doesn't use MP though, /MNK does give a nice fat HP boost >. >

[Icemage]

Re: /MNK.... Um, what?

Every job below 10 benefits from /MNK, without exception - even mage jobs. Hand to Hand delay goes down dramatically from Martial Arts I and still gives nice TP return and good damage. The disparity in Accuracy starts to show past that point unless the job has native H2H skill, but it's still the fastest way to level any low level job.


Icemage

[Omgwtfbbqkitten]

Re: /MNK.... Um, what?

The H2H rating is same as sword from what I've seen so far, I haven't really given much thought to swords yet, to be hontest, but they probably would be better for now. I did look the selection over, it seemed much slimmer than dagger selection. Dancer seems to only get knife/kukri-type daggers

Its probably true you'd see better returns on Drain Samba with H2H, I guess I'm just not seeing the long term benefits here.

[Malacite]

Re: /MNK.... Um, what?

personally I prefer /PUP for levels 1-10.

A well geared Automaton can make for a deadly parner.

[dekarguy]

Re: /MNK.... Um, what?

I used /MNK from 1-10 because the knives and swords availible besides Onion gear weren't selling on the windy AH.

Dancers don't have a whole lot of Knife/Sword weapons they can use, only Knifes, not Daggers, and on the sword front, can't use Wax Sword or Xiphos

Long term, H2H probably won't pan out

[Rain_Blade]

Re: /MNK.... Um, what?

Practically every DNC is /MNK on my server right now. I don't really see the point.

You could just ask them.

[Malevolent]

Re: /MNK.... Um, what?

You could just ask them.

the dancers I've seen and asked said because of Martial Arts...

[Cyle]

Re: /MNK.... Um, what?

I have been soloing all the way to my current lvl which is 17 with h2h and currently equipped with Bastokan Knuckles. I have no problem gaining tp, and doing around 19-25 on toughs per fist. I usually drain about 6-10 with each hit as well. Soloing Toughs in Dunes with no downtime is fun.

[Eiyoko]

Re: /MNK.... Um, what?

As far as I see it with Hand to hand...

Pros:
Swing twice and get more TP
Swing twice to drain twice via Drain Samba
Hand-to-hand generally does more damage than daggers

Cons:
Slow swings; if you miss the daze effect will wear quickly
Slow swings; when soloing you're a bit more prone to getting smacked to death.

Just my 2 gil.