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Provoke Flourish: Why? A Speculatory Thread.

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  • Provoke Flourish: Why? A Speculatory Thread.

    So, the news that Dancer has a Flourish with a Provoke effect obviously make me look twice. It didn't seem like that S-E intended this to be a Tank any more than a front line support. But, why the Provoke? Moreover, there are also various Healing "Steps" to consider. So, I'm listing various possibilities here:



    Main Tank

    This event is probably the least likely to happen, and for a reason. As I have repeatedly stated here, people will only ever accept two Tanks, one for each style of tanking possible in the game (currently Paladin for Blood and Ninja for Blink), and I don't see Paladin being dethroned any time soon, whereas Ninja could be in jeopardy if a Dancer somehow becomes the new standard for Blink tanking. Here are the situations where a Main Tank could result (all of which assume Dancer get some form of Tanking Abilities):

    Dancer/Warrior: This is probably the most obvious, because, if Dancer turns out to be a Main Tank material, it's obviously going to want Provokes. But, it already has Provokes. I think this would be a machine, with an unparalleled rate of Provocation. One Dancer provoke after another Warrior one, reasonably spaced, this combo could be great for staying on top of hate. The ability to heal is a plus, as well, to save the Main Healer some effort and hate.

    Dancer/Paladin: This is potentially the best of the bunch. Because Dancer already has Provoke, it can go in to a more tank-minded sub than Warrior, and I think Paladin fits the bill perfectly. Plus, we don't know how potent Dancer's Healing abilities would be, and if they turn out to be not so good, Paladin could supplement them.

    Dancer/Ninja: We don't know for certain that Dancer will be a Blood Tank, or a Tank at all even. But, if it's a Blink Tank, then, Ninja could be a valid sub for yet another job. If Dancer fits as a Blink Tank, and that stacks with Utstusemi, what we have here is one genuine MC Hammer. Also: Dual-Wield Daggers.

    Dancer/White Mage: Kind of out there, and builds upon the fear that Dancer Healing won't be too effective. Tanking with this combo could actually work, because it could be like a Ninja/White Mage with a free Provoke, if it is a Blink Tank. And, of course, there's always the self-healing, if it's a Blood Tank, though that could be better fitted from Paladin.

    Dancer/Red Mage: Blink, Stoneskin, Phalanx, and, as recently discovered, Dispel. This is not mentioning the Fast Cast, either. Red Mage could make an interesting choice for a Tanking sub.

    Dancer/Blue Mage: Subbing Blue Mage still doesn't have much known about how to use its full potential. But, it could be a valid choice if WotG mobs provide useful Tanking Blue Magic spells, and they happen to be at a subbed level. As of now, there's Cocoon as the most prominent benifit, with a few Healing spells, like Wild Carrot and Healing Breeze. Probably not most recommended on this list, though.

    Dancer/Scholar: Speculation-wise, this could potentially combine the best of White Mage and Red Mage subjobs. How much it could actually contribute to Tanking is far from certain, but only one thing really needs to be said to see the logic behind this: 40% Casting Time Stoneskin.

    Now, what if the Provoke Flourish were subbable? That would give rise to potentially far batter Tanking combinations. Examples:

    Warrior/Dancer: Again, a Provocation machine. If subbed Dancer Healing is good enough, the Warrior can help take its load of the Healer's back a little. However, is the subbed extra Provoke enough to make this combo not just another Brady "Warrior/White Mage" repeat?

    Paladin/Dancer: Will Dancer provide an alternative to Paladins subbing Warrior? Provoke, extra Healing, and vaious other uses for TP make it seem like an ideal sub for this Tank.

    Ninja/Dancer: See above for Paladin/Dancer. Probably even more so if Dancer has its own Blink Tanking Abilities that stack with Utsusemi.



    Backup Tanking

    This is probably FAR more likely than Dancer being involved as a Main Tank. Obviously, Dancer being given its own Provoke is obviously done for a reason. However, with the way it's presented, it appears to be more of a front-line Support role. Well, what if taking a few blows for a while is part of that support? Moreover, Dancer needs relatively small amounts of TP to pull off some of its abilities, and taking damage is a method of building TP, so Backup Tanking definately doesn't seem too counter-productive. Examples:

    Dancer/Warrior: Again, we have this combo. This seems to be a good fit for Melee support, and, again, provides two methods of Provocation for greater assurance in panic situations.

    Dancer/Thief: Okay, I know Thief doesn't make a Backup Tank, but it serves a similar purpose. If the Provoke Flourish happens to stack with SATA, then you could throw your Tank a free Provoke if they seem to need it.

    Dancer/Ninja: Pretty much Warrior/Ninja, but with Healing. Easy Backup Tank.

    Warrior/Dancer: Again for the extra Provokes.

    Thief/Dancer: Assume Provoke Flourish is subbable. See Dancer/Thief.

    Samurai/Dancer: If you throw on Seigan + Third Eye, and use the (if subbable) Provoke Flourish, you could Backup Tank if the situation calls for it. Also, Meditate and Store TP could help get more TP faster for the Dancer abilities.



    Well, here's my speculation to how the Provoke Flourish could be used, and why it's there. Anybody else have any speculatory thoughts?
    Originally posted by Armando
    No one at Square Enix has heard of Occam's Razor.
    Originally posted by Armando
    Nintendo always seems to have a legion of haters at the wings ready to jump in and prop up straw men about hardware and gimmicks and casuals.
    Originally posted by Taskmage
    GOD IS MIFFED AT AMERICA

    REPENT SINNERS OR AT LEAST GIVE A NONCOMMITTAL SHRUG

    GOD IS AMBIVALENT ABOUT FURRIES

    THE END IS COMING ONE OF THESE DAYS WHEN GOD GETS AROUND TO IT
    Originally posted by Taskmage
    However much I am actually smart, I got that way by confronting how stupid I am.
    Matthew 16:15

  • #2
    Re: Provoke Flourish: Why? A Speculatory Thread.

    Originally posted by Yellow Mage View Post
    Dancer/Thief: Okay, I know Thief doesn't make a Backup Tank, but it serves a similar purpose. If the Provoke Flourish happens to stack with SATA, then you could throw your Tank a free Provoke if they seem to need it.
    This would be pretty cool. Not as good as a real THF's SATAWS (since that's not only a healthy amount of hate, but also a wonderful damage portion), but still very effective. Just the sort of thing you'd expect out of this sort of a support role job.

    Nice thoughts.
    "And if he left off dreaming about you, where do you suppose you'd be?"

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    • #3
      Re: Provoke Flourish: Why? A Speculatory Thread.

      It just makes me think of why do WHM get flash, since PLD use it to get hate, and how when BLU first came out it tanked alot pre 30 on our server. /WAR + cocoon + Metalic body. I HOPE HOPE HOPE Dancer won't turn into a long term tank, should people start tanking with it.

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      • #4
        Re: Provoke Flourish: Why? A Speculatory Thread.

        If NINs are allowed to fill a tank and a DD slot (at the same time, no less), I don't see a reason why Dancer shouldn't be allowed to fill either a main heal or a tank slot (though hopefully not simultaneously) situation pending.

        Also, the few parses I've run with PLD tanks always show them @15-20% evasion rate. That's Flash speaking, not their D rank evasion skill. I believe WHMs have the most access to -enmity in the entire game... and have a tool to put PLDs over 30% evasion. Not to mention it's a great way to claim a mob w/out spending 150 mp on Holy or however much it is.
        "And if he left off dreaming about you, where do you suppose you'd be?"

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        • #5
          Re: Provoke Flourish: Why? A Speculatory Thread.

          Not to mention WHMs helping Flash moves like Pecking Furry and what not is really helpful overall.

          If DNC could fullfill a tank job that would be great. A job that can fulfill any position is always welcomed, especially when your trying to start a PT.

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