What are the best ways to gain TP /w dagger?

[Omgwtfbbqkitten]

As COR, RNG and fledgling THF, I know all too well that TP with dagger is low and slow, to the point I actually feel pity when I see some RNG and COR try to save ammo by meleeing for TP before having a multi-hit weapon.

I've been planning to start hunting down some daggers in advance, in addition to scaring up gil for some of the high-end daggers. Already have my Heart Snatcher waiting and I can craft a few daggers I need, but I'm also working on getting a Blau Dolch just in case. I figure I'll go THF sometime anyway, so investing now wouldn't be a waste.

Since Dancer relies on TP to do their kind of magic, I thought Mercurial Kris might be a weapon to look out for as well. This would be great for my COR as a Joyeuse alternative, too.

SAM is the last remaining sub I need for RNG and since its also one of the best TP subs, I figure I'll wrap that one up before WotG. Already have other good potential subs lined up - WHM, BLU, NIN, WAR and COR. Those last three each have thier own way of grabbing more TP. I figure I'll knock out /RDM sometime after.

Haste gear seems like a logical choice as well, but most of what I have is 50+

Anyway, I'm looking all this over and I figure out of anyone, THFs would know the best way to maximize dagger TP.

In terms of support for a Dancer, I can see COR + SAM at 37+ being pretty hot if no form of Regain is added. But all alone with a single dagger, it seems like it could be a rough gig unless they get some kind of Store TP or Conserve TP kinds of traits.

[Balfree]

Re: What are the best ways to gain TP /w dagger?

I'm not sure to be honest, I've never used daggers, but I am fairly certain that if Dancer becomes just a tiny bit more TP dependant than, say, Samurai, you better believe they will add some gear to boost their TP gain, I hope so anyway.

Also, I believe dancer has some TP related ability. That will probably help.

I think you can't do much better at this point, though with what's coming who knows what further means you will get to get more TP, faster.

[Omgwtfbbqkitten]

Re: What are the best ways to gain TP /w dagger?

well it is true we don't know that Campaign items we'll get or what "assault"-ish rewards there are to be had in WotG, though I hope my Pahluwhan body sees some action again with dancer.

I'm just going off the here and now since SE has always seemed reluctant and slow to add gear to the pre-50 side of the game. post 50 I have lots of ideas where to go. I guess its been so long since I've partied pre-50. I finished a WHM sub like five months ago and been soloing BST and BLU since XD

Seriously though, if you were COR, BRD and RDM previously, you'd probably invest in lots of solo too. I love support classes, but prefer to party out of necessity. COR and BRD let me merit at my leisure, I'm far from a merit whore.

[Aeolus]

Re: What are the best ways to gain TP /w dagger?

I would use alot of Haste gear if the magic is going to be heavily TP dependent and also maybe some Atk gear if your using a merc as the dmg is so low alot of the time you end up hitting for 0 dmg and gain no TP.

Subbing nin and dual wielding would allow for greater TP gain too but then ninaja might not be as suitable for dancer as other subs. 60% TP every 3 mins from /sam may work out better than /nin in the long run.

Hopefully Dancer will get some sort of TP regen though if TP is going to be like mp. All other mp jobs pretty much do.

[Armando]

Re: What are the best ways to gain TP /w dagger?

As COR, RNG and fledgling THF, I know all too well that TP with dagger is low and slow, to the point I actually feel pity when I see some RNG and COR try to save ammo by meleeing for TP before having a multi-hit weapon.

...? Dagger isn't inherently slower at getting TP than any other weapon in the game, if you ignore multi-hit stuff. In fact they're generally slightly faster than other one-handers (a 180 Delay dagger requires exactly 60 seconds to hit 20 times for 100 TP at 5 TP/hit, whereas a 240 Delay longsword takes exactly 64 secs to hit 16 times for 102.4 TP at 6.4/TP hit; most one-handed weapons take about 64 secs -/+ 2 secs.)

Daggers and Katanas are unique in that they can get TP over time at a faster rate than the norm if their Delay is below 180. So Dual Wielding with two low-delay daggers is one way to increase TP gain that's exclusive to daggers/katanas. Alternatively, single-wield one of the 150 Delay daggers (pray for Sirocco Kukri.)

Obviously, Haste. Obviously, Double Attack/Triple Attack. Obviously, multi-hit weapons (M.Kris.) Obviously, Store TP. These are universal to all weapons, and you already know about them.

Outside of that...um...there's nothing left, unless you consider /DRG, with its mix of Jumps and a 5% Haste earring. Well, if anything, Elmer the Pointy's translation of the Altana Osaka Festival mentioned a "TP Conversion" Flourish. Whatever that means.

Sorry, I just don't know what kind of answer you're expecting that isn't stating the obvious.

EDIT:

I would use alot of Haste gear if the magic is going to be heavily TP dependent and also maybe some Atk gear if your using a merc as the dmg is so low alot of the time you end up hitting for 0 dmg and gain no TP.

False. Hitting for 0 is an issue of low Attack/high mob Defense/overhunting. If you hit for 0 with Merc Kris, you'll also hit for 0 with a high DMG dagger.

[ItazuraNhomango]

Re: What are the best ways to gain TP /w dagger?

EDIT:False. Hitting for 0 is an issue of low Attack/high mob Defense/overhunting. If you hit for 0 with Merc Kris, you'll also hit for 0 with a high DMG dagger.

Hmm. I've heard of RDMs using Ceremonial Dagger in order to do no direct damage and give monsters no TP while using en-spell to whittle down the targets' HP. If what you say is true, then they should just use 150 delay daggers and forget about damage rating on the weapons.

[Armando]

Re: What are the best ways to gain TP /w dagger?

Ceremonial dagger is special. Because its DMG is 1, an fSTR of -1 yields 0 DMG, and thus 0 damage no matter what quantities of Attack/Defense are involved.

However, having negative fSTR is already a feat in itself, due to mobs having pathetic VIT. I mean, hell, you're almost guaranteed to have a positive fSTR against an IT mob even if you're naked. Even if a Rank 1 weapon can have an fSTR of -8 (which I'm almost certain it can't; just like fSTR has a max, it also has a minimum, which if I remember correctly equals the opposite of the weapon's rank, i.e. -1 in the case of a Rank 1 weapon), it'd be almost impossible to drop your STR so far below any WAR mob's craptastic VIT that you'd reach an fSTR of -8.

That's why this trick can't be done with K.Club for ultimate win.

EDIT: Minor mistake, weapons from DMG 1-8 are Rank 0 weapons, not Rank 1. The rule IS indeed that the minimum for fSTR is -WRank, just double-checked. However, there's an exception to this rule, and the minimum fSTR for Rank 0 weapons is also -1. So, yeah. Bottom line is that only a DMG:1 weapon can reach a (DMG + fSTR) of 0.

[ItazuraNhomango]

Re: What are the best ways to gain TP /w dagger?

Ah, I see. That's a pretty tricky corner case.

[Omgwtfbbqkitten]

Re: What are the best ways to gain TP /w dagger?

...? Dagger isn't inherently slower at getting TP than any other weapon in the game, if you ignore multi-hit stuff. In fact they're generally slightly faster than other one-handers (a 180 Delay dagger requires exactly 60 seconds to hit 20 times for 100 TP at 5 TP/hit, whereas a 240 Delay longsword takes exactly 64 secs to hit 16 times for 102.4 TP at 6.4/TP hit; most one-handed weapons take about 64 secs -/+ 2 secs.)

Could be I'm just used to using the same daggers for so many levels across both COR and RNG that its hard to see them as good for TP gain. Its generally much better to shoot for TP since you get better returns and 30+ RNG and 60+ COR/RNG, you get the ability to pull out more TP with Barrage.

Then I've had joyeuse since 70 on COR and generally shoot for TP on RNG still. Dagger TP just feels rather slow. Despite the low damage, I can't help but see MK as an asset to this job other CORs have told me the TP returns are rather nice, particularly with Samurai Roll active. Seeing the insane TP gain Joyuese with SAM Roll and a SAM present, I believe them.

[Armando]

Re: What are the best ways to gain TP /w dagger?

I asked an Alla poster to test his M.Kris, he said it had a 25-50-25 proc rate for no proc, double hit proc, triple hit proc respectively. That averages out to 2 hits per attack round. I.e. double TP gain. Just make sure you don't dual wield it and dillute its effect. If TP is all you care about, then M.Kris is most likely as good as it gets.

Then again S-E might not let Dancer use multi-hit weapons at all, like they did with BLU. LOL.

[Omgwtfbbqkitten]

Re: What are the best ways to gain TP /w dagger?

If Kriegstanz (Sword Dance) remains true to its form (four-fold attack) and is a frequent Flourish, along with that "TP conversion" then multi-hit might not even be needed. I just prefer to hope they get it so I can whore MK out on multiple jobs.

[nanatsu]

Re: What are the best ways to gain TP /w dagger?

Leveling THF upwards to 65 I can say that I've never had a problem with Dagger TP gain. I think it's more than possible that RNG and COR suffer from having ~B skill in dagger and have more misses on average than THF's A- skill. There's also the fact that if you don't have sufficient attack, then you're going to be hitting 0s against mobs with high def moves and you may have noticed that at those times. I say these things because I've also had the pleasure of leveling RNG/NIN with dual wield daggers and yeah, I noticed the misses when trying to melee up front. In general, a THF using a dagger isn't slow. THF TP generation is is pretty decent to say the least.

It has to be because it's ideal for a THF to have 100% TP every minute, or at least that's the ideal situation. Haste gear is used to help accomplish this, although I only had the purple harness for haste gear at the time and I still managed to get 100% TP in time for SA timer.

Now for a dancer, outside of outright getting a Mercurial Kris, I'd say it'd take a mix of haste gear and decent attack gear, as has already been said. And thems my 2 centies.

[jenova_9]

Re: What are the best ways to gain TP /w dagger?

chances are Dancer might start out like THF where you are better off using a
1h sword until around level 30+

plus the TP conversion possibility, haste dance ability, and other stuff may make increasing TP much better.

I dunno about SAM's store TP, tho. you gotta be really high level to really notice a difference. I think BRD would make a much more useful sub for parties in general, cause if you combined say Dancer's Endrain HP with Army's Paeon, it could help the party recover a little faster. or boost everyone's attack power with Valor Minuet, could offer more buffs to the party and bonuses than just depending on something miniscule like store TP to get a meager boost in TP increase, which barely makes a difference at all.

[Magoo]

Re: What are the best ways to gain TP /w dagger?

I don't think it is the daggers that are bad for TP gain for Corsair and Rng as much as that they generally aren't geared for melee accuracy. The best ranged accuracy rings at most levels even have -melee accuracy.

As far as haste goes, for thf at least we generally avoid haste gear until the highest levels because it isn't worth the sacrifce you have to make in accuracy in order to equip it. Swinging faster doesn't help a lot if you are missing all the time. There isn't really any haste gear prior to 50 that I can think of anyway aside from the monk equipment.

For early leveling up goes it's really just a matter of maxing out your accuracy and using a fast weapon. Hornetneedle was a great offhand for tp gain for a long time.

[nanatsu]

Re: What are the best ways to gain TP /w dagger?

Agree with above. it occurs to me that a lot of RNG wear +rng acc and -acc rings and don't switch them out when they run up to melee. Yes RNG has acc bonuses but every little bit helps with that B skill. And I generally don't see COR gearing up like a DD would for melee damage so I really wouldn't expect them to do very well at all with dagger TP gain.