What will you Sub with Dancer?

[Raydeus]

Re: What will you Sub with Dancer?

/whm ...that;s what they say for brd... and it pretty useless for brd most of the time.

Useless? I guess we've had very different experiences with the job.

[Ellipses]

Re: What will you Sub with Dancer?

I think I may in fact level BLM just in case, it could turn Dancer into a magical force to be reckoned with.

/BLM doesn't add anything terribly useful except for MAB, which probably won't help Dancer's skills much. Half-leveled spells suck unless they're sure-fire and/or capped like Cure and Protect, or if the main job has a natural ability in them anyway.

/whm ...that;s what they say for brd... and it pretty useless for brd most of the time.

Useless for crappy, lazy bards with no communication skills.

[Evion]

Re: What will you Sub with Dancer?

I'm hoping for /RDM, but I think it will be more like melee style /WAR, /THF. Maybe /DRK for later levels?

[jenova_9]

Re: What will you Sub with Dancer?

I think you can get away with maybe War.

but ya I'm beginning to agree /WHM will be popular and useful at least until maybe 30.

[Icemage]

Re: What will you Sub with Dancer?

It all depends on what skills Dancer has as its main. If the dances go under their own new Dancing skill, then your standard arsenal of /WHM, /NIN, or /THF apply depending on how the game mechanics work out.

I think most people will be subbing /WHM early on if for no other reason than it's the most useful support job taken on its own in a party situation.

We need to see what the rest of the gameplay for the job works out like before passing judgment on any other subjob.


Icemage

[jenova_9]

Re: What will you Sub with Dancer?

yeah but all we can do is speculate now.

but ya I strongly think Dancer will be similiar to Bard in that it's Dance magic won't require MP (hopefully. I really love Bard's style of magic that's similiar to FF8's para-magic yet unlimited with a time refresh duration delay requirement to use it again.)

And its abilities will be more about handicapping the enemy and perhaps removing negative status from the party as well, sort of like a poison assassion who can use poison on enemies and rid themselves of any poison. (poison being used as a general example). but ya who knows how diverse their spectrum of talents go. It will sure be exciting to find out more. But ya I hope it's more of a support and dd type of job, well leaning more on the support side, but I think Dancers will make better fighters than Bards, possibly, if they inherit their FFT qualities too.

oh hey side news but Scholar has been confirmed

http://img165.imageshack.us/img165/4219/schit0.jpg

hmm I wonder how they would compare with Dancers? Well sure Scholars seem to be WHMs that can become BLMs, and vice versa. I dunno if that's some type of special RDM style, but then again their types of magic are not confirmed. Anyways, I wonder if Dancers can do more damage than Scholars?

[Omgwtfbbqkitten]

Re: What will you Sub with Dancer?

Based on what I've read in Elmer The Pointy's transltion, I'm now seeing melee subs such as /WAR, /NIN and /SAM being much more favorable to Dancer since those are subs that favor TP gain and TP feeds their abilities rather than MP or a no-cost spell/ability like COR and BRD has.

/COR could be something at 74 as well, as they get Samurai Roll at 37 main job.

With TP in mind, I'm seeing Mercurial Kris as a potential weapon of choice for this job, so I'll be focusing my efforts on obtaining one. At any rate its also nice for COR. I also need to acquire some more MAB gear for COR, which should also compliment the job nicely.

I'm not writing off mage subs completely, but this class requires melee engagements to do what it does, so I can't really see them as high-priority for this job past the lower levels.

[Karinya]

Re: What will you Sub with Dancer?

With Signet, melee and resting are no longer incompatible (in Signet areas, which probably will still include the first 50+ levels of exp). Below 50 you aren't really getting any extra TP out of /war or /nin, anyway.

With higher levels, of course that will change; /sam post 60 may be a possibility (particularly at hnm; several other people have already observed that you're probably not going to want the alliance's dancers swinging away at Kirin or a Jailer to get the TP to power their dances).

[Omgwtfbbqkitten]

Re: What will you Sub with Dancer?

With Signet, melee and resting are no longer incompatible (in Signet areas, which probably will still include the first 50+ levels of exp). Below 50 you aren't really getting any extra TP out of /war or /nin, anyway.

Well, it appears Dancer gets a form of Haste from the most recent Osaka news, while higher tiers of DW and while DA may not be available until 50, /WAR does have Berzerk going for it before then, which would help contribute to damage.

Honestly, I see mage subs boxing dancer in like they currently do CORs, so i don't see how /NIN or /WAR wouldn't be good pre-50 seeing how little /WHM is going to add when gear options become more diverse as dancer grows in level. /WHM can be just as much of a crutch as it can be helpful.

With higher levels, of course that will change; /sam post 60 may be a possibility (particularly at hnm; several other people have already observed that you're probably not going to want the alliance's dancers swinging away at Kirin or a Jailer to get the TP to power their dances).

If Dancer becomes a "Boost/Chi Monkey" at endgame levels, I think that would kill the job for me. SE better have tools and traits in place to ensure no other job suffers the fate that MNK currently does at endgame. A "Meditate Monkey" wouldn't be very exciting.

Though I suppose if SE is going to use TP as Dancer's MP, they may be giving it some Store TP traits, possibly a "Conserve TP" trait as well. Regardless, for the debuffs, I think Dancer does have to be engaged and debuffs have generally been the stronger suit of dancer, not buffs.

[Karinya]

Re: What will you Sub with Dancer?

If Dancer becomes a "Boost/Chi Monkey" at endgame levels, I think that would kill the job for me. SE better have tools and traits in place to ensure no other job suffers the fate that MNK currently does at endgame. A "Meditate Monkey" wouldn't be very exciting.

Tools and traits have nothing to do with it: it's the limit of 18 people with claim on the mob that causes the phenomenon. (Outside instanced endgame content like Dynamis, Salvage etc.) Would you rather have one of those slots taken by a dancer hitting for 3, or have it taken by a sam who has just finished meditating and is coming in to WS before he drops out to meditate again? I know which one is going to get Kirin/JoL/etc. dead faster.

Monks have something useful to do that *doesn't require TP*, so they do it. All the other melees sub sam or bring their opo-opo necklaces and sleep potions.

Though I suppose if SE is going to use TP as Dancer's MP, they may be giving it some Store TP traits, possibly a "Conserve TP" trait as well. Regardless, for the debuffs, I think Dancer does have to be engaged and debuffs have generally been the stronger suit of dancer, not buffs.

Most HNM are either immune or nearly immune to debuffs. That's why RDM spend most of their time in HNM fights refreshing and backup healing (except for a few where we chainstun). DNC is going to have the same problem even worse: if you need to build tp on a level 90 monster before using your debuffs that get resisted... please bring another job.

Dancer working fine on exp mobs does not translate into dancer working fine on HNMs.

[jenova_9]

Re: What will you Sub with Dancer?

but it looks to me Dancer has many bases covered. it has Dances for healing (maybe this includes removing bad status from party members, but it affects everyone at once instead of only one target at a time).

and the Steps and Flourishes could offer more support stuff, ya mostly debuffs/enfeeble stuff, but also like that drain HP from mob thing that the whole party benefits from.

I think DCR/BRD is gonna be a great support job (they will only be able to stick one song in effect at a time, but it's still helpful. just give everyone Army's Paeon or Valor Minuet and they'll thank you for it). and ya early levels war and stuff won't really help build TP quicker.
if people wanna contribute more damage and rack up TP quicker, Maybe DCR might as well be able to equip knuckles and sub /MNK since MNKs generally rack up TP quicker with double hits and their boost can increase damage potential.

but I think SE thought of that possibility and want Dancer to use knives instead, so they might in fact block off Dancer from ever being able to use Knuckles. hence, why I would go for DCR/BRD instead.

and since Dancer depends on MP, one can say without a sub, they will have no MP,
therefore subbing /WHM for a pathetic puddle of MP will definitely not offer as much as /BRD would, especially if the party doesn't have a BRD (they are rare anyway. So why not have a Dancer that offers the best of both support worlds AND still contribute some damage dealing instead of sitting with the mages like a flimsy coward?).

[Balfree]

Re: What will you Sub with Dancer?

I will be DNC/SCH

[jenova_9]

Re: What will you Sub with Dancer?

uh oh it looks like at the Osaka event, they mentioned one of the Steps+Flourish effects includes "Provoke". waaa hopefully people don't actually except Dancer to tank. Anyways the interviews have stated that they wanted the new jobs, especially Dancer, to provide all kinds of support, without being forced on the sidelines. So it's kinda like a little dd here, and little enfeeble there, a little party boost here.... etc. etc. That's great that one of the abilities is in fact Haste-type. that sounds cool, I wonder if it's in fact a Hastega-like affect that targets everyone. ^_^

but ya that sure is interesting that means that Steps set up the effect that lets Flourishes serve as a finishing move, so they are kinda used in conjunction with steps.

But ya this is great they said each race/gender will have their own Dance animations! at least 4 animations each!! and each one will have their own unique finishing pose after each Dancer I think.

but iffy is that so far it looks like Dancing in towns will not be possible since they require TP, and as everyone knows TP resets and remains 0% while in town.
the only way I see it is if they add an ability to Dancer that lets them generate TP, like say 10% or something, kinda like Monk's boost, but increases TP instead of attack power.

the catch would be that the TP charge ability would not be stackable. I can see that working, or maybe they can try something else. like add a minor Dance abilities that doesn't need TP and can be used in towns. or add them as exclusive emotes to the Dancer job. or something.


I'm sure the demand will be high that SE will be convinced to let Dancers dance in town, somehow. Cause the pressure from BRDs being able to sing in town would cause a debate about Dancers not given that kinda freedom.

[Icemage]

Re: What will you Sub with Dancer?

With the above information, it's looking likely that /NIN will become very popular. Dancers have no need for MP, and their primary weapon is a one-handed weapon (dagger). Furthermore, dependence on TP makes dual wielding make sense (faster attack rate), and with some form of Provoke available, you could maybe tank at level 74+ unless the dance steps do Bad Things to spellcasting recharge the way Hasso and Seigan do.


Icemage

[Karinya]

Re: What will you Sub with Dancer?

You can Meditate in town. This would only help level 60+ dnc/sams, but hey, if it's just to show off in town...

Actually, Store TP could easily outperform DW for getting more TP faster, and with the addition of Meditate... if TP are really a limiting factor on DNC's performance (as opposed to, say, recast timers or stacking limits where it's easy to get as many dances on as you can actually have at once), /sam could be the dominant post-60 sub (and not just at HNM where you can't get into the main alliance to build TP). Despite the fact that DNC can't benefit from Hasso/Seigan.

P.S. Bards have no need for MP either - unless they have a subjob that *does* have a use for it. Ditto beastmasters. /WHM isn't just a way to get MP, it's also a way to use it, in one convenient package that also saves people's lives.