Blu/Nin, Is it a must?

[Vildar]

Hello, i recently got my blue to level 21 (was 22 but de-leveld trying to solo) and i have been tolled that i MUST sub nin for blu to be effective atall. But i also have seen high level blu/war's running around and they have said i dont actualy need nin.

I understand that with nin subbed my survivability is higher, and that i gain more tp (so ive been told), which in tern makes my spells more effective. But do i actualy have to sub nin? Trying to level it is just to painfull for me.

Would Blu/war be ok or is it an absolute certenty that i must sub nin.
As i have said above, i have seen blu/war's running around in parties.

Please dont have a go at me if it is "ment" to be subbed. Thanks for any information

PS: Sorry for any spelling errors i have made.

[Pteryx]

Re: Blu/Nin, Is it a must?

Hello, i recently got my blue to level 21 (was 22 but de-leveld trying to solo) and i have been tolled that i MUST sub nin for blu to be effective atall. But i also have seen high level blu/war's running around and they have said i dont actualy need nin.

I understand that with nin subbed my survivability is higher, and that i gain more tp (so ive been told), which in tern makes my spells more effective. But do i actualy have to sub nin? Trying to level it is just to painfull for me.

The idea that /NIN improves your TP gain is false. Dual Wield adds the delay of your two weapons together, then takes away a small percentage of that depending on the level of the trait in order to figure your base delay. You are then given TP as though you were swinging a singular weapon with that delay. Dual Wield is NOT a haste effect! Thus, you gain TP no faster, though your DoT improves.

However, Dual Wield does add an extra hit to multi-hit weaponskills. While it hasn't been outright proven, it's believed to add an extra hit to multi-hit physical spells as well -- meaning BLU would benefit from that aspect of Dual Wield more than anyone else.

But is it absolutely necessary? No. /WAR and /THF will both give you means of improving your damage. /WHM or /SCH will let you change roles into an effective healer, in case a party needs that instead of a DDer. -- Pteryx

[Omgwtfbbqkitten]

Re: Blu/Nin, Is it a must?

The OP is looking for reasons to not level something that can be useful to his job. I've levelled subjobs like WAR and WHM twice, I'm about to go for a second round of NIN and DNC. What makes it so painful, other than it requires spending gil, questing scrolls and a little BCNMing? You can honestly solo NIN to 37 with ease these days, especially so with a DNC or WHM subjob prepared.

If you want to depend on everyone around you to help you to learn your spells, by all means, skip levelling NIN. You'll kill a big part of being able to solo as BLU and make the path to learning your spells all the more difficult.

[Celeal]

Re: Blu/Nin, Is it a must?

Consider /nin is a tool for your to learn blue magic, a tool for solo, or another way to enjoy playing BLU.

For leveling subjobs, if you trying to *rush* it, it may not be fun. Just take the time and enjoy the process ^^/

[Vildar]

Re: Blu/Nin, Is it a must?

True i guess, Spose it dosnt help with my LS trying to rush me into leveling nin as fast i can. TBH personly i think that nin is a little to over rated. I mean, i sware i heard something about SAM having to sub it now... even though the sam abilities double the recast right? Anyhoo, i dont deny that nin is a good sub for blu, its just leveling it is becoming quite painfull. Any good solo points for leveling nin? Atmo its 13.

[Malacite]

Re: Blu/Nin, Is it a must?

Thus, you gain TP no faster, though your DoT improves.

You do if you are NIN/WAR, WAR/NIN or THF/NIN but otherwise this is spot on ^^b

[VZX]

Re: Blu/Nin, Is it a must?

Dual Wield does improve your TP gain in average. Just because it reduce 1.3~ TP/hit, it doesn't make "gain TP no faster" as a result.

True i guess, Spose it dosnt help with my LS trying to rush me into leveling nin as fast i can. TBH personly i think that nin is a little to over rated. I mean, i sware i heard something about SAM having to sub it now... even though the sam abilities double the recast right? Anyhoo, i dont deny that nin is a good sub for blu, its just leveling it is becoming quite painfull. Any good solo points for leveling nin? Atmo its 13.

/NIN is a good effective sub for many jobs, offensively and defensively. This includes BLU.
If you think /NIN is overrated, I think you underrate the effectiveness of /NIN.

/SAM on the other hand, doesn't do much on BLU. A job with 1-handed weapon main simply get the lower end benefit from /SAM.

Soloing melee job has always been the same for me. Aim mid-EP mob, kill as fast as you can.

[Deeke]

Re: Blu/Nin, Is it a must?

The OP never mentioned a thing about BLU/SAM.

(And I've never considered DW to be a +TP job trait. I share Pteryx's understanding that you simply swing faster but get a mathematically proportional deduction to your TP per swing, thus taking your TP gain back to what it would be without DW.)

[ItazuraNhomango]

Re: Blu/Nin, Is it a must?

Dual Wield does improve your TP gain in average. Just because it reduce 1.3~ TP/hit, it doesn't make "gain TP no faster" as a result.

Hmmm. Using Lv.30 Centurion's Sword (225 delay) as example:

One hand:
TP/round = 5 + (225 - 180) * 6.5 / 270
TP/round = 6.0

TP/sec = 6.0 / (225/60)
TP/sec = 1.6


Dual Wield I: 10%
Delay = (225 * 2) * (100% - 10%)
Delay = 405

TP/round = 5 + (405 - 180) * 6.5 / 270
TP/round = 10.4

TP/sec = 10.4 / (405/60)
TP/sec ~= 1.54


If accuracy is the same, 225 delay sword will gain TP slower with Dual Wield--if I calculated everything correctly.

[Tomato_Kai]

Re: Blu/Nin, Is it a must?

I'm not sure what the argument in this thread is, so I'll answer questions related to the three main arguments that I see. Well, as best as I can, anyhow.

Should the OP lvl nin for blu sub?

My answer: Sure! Why not? It's an effective sub for a good number of jobs, and blue mage is one of them. Why not level it now and get it out of the way?

Does the OP need to lvl nin to be effective with blue?

My Answer: Hell no! I like /thf more anyhow, personally. Sneak attack is so nifty.

Is dual wield an effective TP gain tool?

My Answer: Not especially. It wasn't really designed to be. You'll get bonuses from it, but largely in areas other than TP gain.

[Vildar]

Re: Blu/Nin, Is it a must?

Hmmm. Using Lv.30 Centurion's Sword (225 delay) as example:

One hand:
TP/round = 5 + (225 - 180) * 6.5 / 270
TP/round = 6.0

TP/sec = 6.0 / (225/60)
TP/sec = 1.6


Dual Wield I: 10%
Delay = (225 * 2) * (100% - 10%)
Delay = 405

TP/round = 5 + (405 - 180) * 6.5 / 270
TP/round = 10.4

TP/sec = 10.4 / (405/60)
TP/sec ~= 1.54


If accuracy is the same, 225 delay sword will gain TP slower with Dual Wield--if I calculated everything correctly.

Thats some confusing math there , or is it just me...
Anyhoo thank you all for your comments/information. I will continue to level nin. Im just finding it not as fun as any of the other jobs i have leveld.
I do admit, subbed to blue it is quite a nice job, just wish was a little more fun to level.

[skot23]

Re: Blu/Nin, Is it a must?

Nin, is great for three things:
Shadows
dual wield
added evasion

Also, once you hit 50, you've got access to sneak and invisible (which was a big reason for subbing whm) previously. Having shadows up has saved my ass tons of times. Nin is tough to level if you're not into tanking, but it's totally worth it. The big 3 subs are nin, whm and thf. I've found that leveling all three has taught me more about the game.

[Kaickul]

Re: Blu/Nin, Is it a must?

Yes, you should get NIN leveled up for a sub.
No, you shouldn't use it for leveling until 50+ when you can start using Haste gear to improve your DoT.

When I was leveling BLU I found that I could do more damage through DoT with /NIN (level 50+) because good spells at lower levels have high MP cost and so-so damage.

Also, as IfritnoItazura mentioned, lower delay weapons are what work best for Dual Wield. Using higher delay weapons pretty much kills the point.

[VZX]

Re: Blu/Nin, Is it a must?

Hmmm. Using Lv.30 Centurion's Sword (225 delay) as example:
*snip*
Dual Wield I: 10%
Delay = (225 * 2) * (100% - 10%)
Delay = 405

TP/round = 5 + (405 - 180) * 6.5 / 270
TP/round = 10.4

TP/sec = 10.4 / (405/60)
TP/sec ~= 1.54


If accuracy is the same, 225 delay sword will gain TP slower with Dual Wield--if I calculated everything correctly.

This is incorrect,
For TP gain, you need to plug the delay of each hand. In this case, it is 405/2 = 202, not 405.

So the correct one is:
TP/round = 5 + (202 - 180) * 6.5 / 270
TP/round = 5.5 TP/hand * 2 = 11.0 TP

TP/sec = 10.4 / (405/60)
TP/sec ~= 1.63

Slightly better than one-handed, but it's not worse.

[ItazuraNhomango]

Re: Blu/Nin, Is it a must?

Ah, I see; I took a shortcut unconsciously. lol.

So, the statement "Dual Wield gives no better TP gain" is technically false. How about "Dual Wield's improvement to TP gain is negligible"? Is that better?