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**Aeolus** · 02-13-2007, 07:43 AM

Re: Daydreaming about BLU relic weapon...

I think your trying to overpower blu more than they already are. I think the way exalibur or w/e its called works the way it does because Pld and Rdm do gimp dmg, Blu dont so they should have a relic weapon as crap as every other jobs.

**Krondorn** · 02-13-2007, 07:47 AM

Re: Daydreaming about BLU relic weapon...

From what I've seen most other jobs have very good relic weapons, especially the stronger melee jobs...

After looking over my ideas again, I really don't think they are overpowered at all, especially Type II. It seems like a perfectly average relic weapon.

**Aeolus** · 02-13-2007, 07:54 AM

Re: Daydreaming about BLU relic weapon...

They are good but imo not good enough to warrant the excessive cost/time needed to obtain them except for Excalibur and Gjallarhorn.

**Armando** · 02-13-2007, 07:54 AM

Re: Daydreaming about BLU relic weapon...

Wow. They're broken. Really broken. I mean, Relic Ridill and Super Excalibur on a job that's already designed to be a DD? And super TP-mongling abilities at that on a job that feeds off of TP for spike damage?

S-E doesn't want to give BLUs Ridill as it is. There's now way anything similar to this'll be implemented if you ask me.

**Aeolus** · 02-13-2007, 08:03 AM

Re: Daydreaming about BLU relic weapon...

Originally posted by Krondorn View Post

After looking over my ideas again, I really don't think they are overpowered at all, especially Type II. It seems like a perfectly aeverage relic weapon.

dmg: 52 and dmg proportional to TP. If that isnt overpowered I dont know what is. You also have it doing triple dmg occasionally. The dmg blu can do atm is ridiculous, sure they have to wait for MP to do the dmg but all the Blus I know get by just fine. I aint complaining and Im not saying nerf them I just dont think these relic weapons would be fair.

**Raydeus** · 02-13-2007, 08:07 AM

Re: Daydreaming about BLU relic weapon...

Originally posted by Aeolus View Post

They are good but imo not good enough to warrant the excessive cost/time needed to obtain them except for Excalibur and Gjallarhorn.

And I would say Aegis and the horn, because from what I've heard the aditional effect on Excalibur can and will get resisted on tougher mobs just like any added effect.

And yeah I agree, the TP gain is way too much, even SAM's Relic only gives temporary +Store TP (and kinda weak from what it seems).

If I was to guess what kinda weapon it would be it would be something like:

<Insert Relic Name>

DMG 51 Delay 240
Aditional Effect: Magic defense down
Att+20

And

<Insert WS name>
STR and INT/MND
Aditional effect: Refresh

I wouldn't expect anthing better than that really.

**Krondorn** · 02-13-2007, 08:08 AM

Re: Daydreaming about BLU relic weapon...

Are y'all assuming I want 100% proc rates and 100% TP from the WS? Would these still be broken if the 2~3 hits proc 10% or even 5%? What if the WS only restored 25% TP at 300%? If they are entirely broken, what do you think may be more likely? Take some time to give some input, rather than criticism...

Thank you, Raydeus.

**Skoal** · 02-13-2007, 08:09 AM

Re: Daydreaming about BLU relic weapon...

Also 1 handed relics have att+20 not acc+20.

**Krondorn** · 02-13-2007, 08:13 AM

Re: Daydreaming about BLU relic weapon...

Thanks, I never noticed there was a pattern... >>;

**Malacite** · 02-13-2007, 11:11 AM

Re: Daydreaming about BLU relic weapon...

Maybe an added affect that boosts blue magic damage?

And the reason the Aegis is the #1 Relic (Gjallar Horn is actually 2nd) is because it's a Size 5 shield and it blocks at the same rate as a size 1. Then there's the -25% magic damage @ .@ it's too bad the thing doesn't have any +enmity or it'd be perfect.

**Aeolus** · 02-13-2007, 11:54 AM

Re: Daydreaming about BLU relic weapon...

Shield bashing for 250+ Dmg on HNMs usually gets you all the hate you need and a Pld with Aegis that strugles with hate on any other mobs should be dragged out and shot.

**Kholdstare** · 02-13-2007, 01:16 PM

Re: Daydreaming about BLU relic weapon...

Personally, seeing as this is going to be BLU specific, I'd say that the relic weapon should have some BLU specific stats. Perhaps instead of Attack or Acc +20, how about Blue Magic Skill +20? As for Additional Effect, I'd say that something that'd aid spells, either an MP restore (One that both procs more than and gives more MP than Leech Scimitar) or some sort of "Increases Blue Magic potency" effect. Seeing as BLU is so versatile, something that aids any role would be a good idea.

S-E doesn't want to give BLUs Ridill as it is. There's now way anything similar to this'll be implemented if you ask me.

And this is a BS move, if you ask me. A WAR/NIN with Ridill in offhand is far deadlier than a BLU is. People always say "Oh, it'd make BLU overpowered blabbidiblah" yet they never explain why. Are you worried about BLU's TP gain? Too bad they're limited by Chain Affinity's timer more than they are TP gain.

**Lmnop** · 02-14-2007, 08:30 AM

Re: Daydreaming about BLU relic weapon...

errr I have so many opinions that I can't remember a single one.

I respect your ideas for this theoretical Relic weapon (and I very much enjoy the mythology-based names you found).

First off: Tp is the playground of the Samurai. Blue mage has already stolen Samurai's thunder pretty much every way possible (please note that I'm speaking in the realm of uniqueness and roleplaying, not actual in-game power as I know Samurai are a well balanced class) - you self SC every 2 minutes to their 2 hours and you can open and close every Skillchain in the game. Samurai were lauded in the past for having WSs all over the chart, but they're far from what you guys can do now. With this in mind, I think anything on the Relic involving TP would be unfair.

One thing to notice about Relic weapons is that they were all poorly done. It seems to me that FFXI is put together by multiple departments that do not always cooperate with each other. It seems that one department got the go-ahead to make these ultimate weapons but since they were so inobtainable, they didn't care to pour all the resources of their other teams into them.

What you end up with is that all the relics are virtually the same - 60% WS modifiers, the very uniform build of acc+20 on 2 handers and attack+20 on 1 handers, add'l effects and hidden effects on normal melee swings, add'l effects and hidden effects on Weapon Skills that are all one-hit type. Same level 3 SC-extending property.

In the meantime, almost none of them were well crafted to fit the job the way it should. A Dragoon gets Shock Spikes instead of oh.. I dunno.. portion of WS damage transfers as Stoneskin to Wyvern or something cool like that... yeah heaven forbid. Samurai get Store TP +16, I want to say. Ask Nodachi. That's a decent amount, but it's not a life changer. Mandau gets additional effect poison and it's WS has nothing to do with enmity, making it just powerful for THF instead of "clever." Oh, and the staff isn't even as good as elemental staves for blms or smns. HAHAHAHAHA.

Here's another funny thing about Relic WSs: They all use pre-fab animations. Metatron Torment, for instance, is just the Full Break character animation. It's like they couldn't get the animation department to make new ones for the 7 different character builds so they took already existing WS animations and applied new firework SFX to them.

All this means that you can't expect Blu Relic to have something dandy and original about it. Relic Hammer has additional effect: restores mp which is one of the better thought-out ones, oddly enough. I would expect something like "Additional effect: increases monster correlation effect" at best.

Raydeus' idea for the additional effect is pretty good. Though I think the WS would prolly have "temporarily increases magic defense."

Onto the Ridill debate that everything turns into. Ridill would allow BLU to do War-esque damage all the time instead of every 2 minutes. It would not only guarentee plentiful Vorpal Blades, it'd take away any bit of planning on the player's part in trying to make sure they had tp for CA. You would always have loads of tp for whatever you want. You could probably make your own 3-way SC via /sam.

But the real reason Ridill is not useable by blu - and pretty much all multi-hitters are unequippable by new jobs ('cept Joyeuse on cor because S-E deemed it "harmless") is because S-E knows they're game breaking. They don't want to fuel the fire any more than they have to.

S-E took the approach some time ago of adding new multi-hitters and they pretty uniformly suck, except for soboro. And that one's only good because of a plethora of indirect damage skills that Samurai has at it's disposal. This was S-E giving in "we can't nerf one, but we can boost everyone else." It didn't fix anything. They attempted a similar approach again recently with something... oh yeah, making the expansion pack ToAU which of course stands for "TPburns of Aht Urgan." "Let's make it so anyone melee can get rediculous exp w/out ever even considering working together or using any of the game mechanics that we've encouraged for 3 years!"

**Kholdstare** · 02-15-2007, 12:29 PM

Re: Daydreaming about BLU relic weapon...

Originally posted by Lmnop View Post

Onto the Ridill debate that everything turns into. Ridill would allow BLU to do War-esque damage all the time instead of every 2 minutes. It would not only guarentee plentiful Vorpal Blades, it'd take away any bit of planning on the player's part in trying to make sure they had tp for CA. You would always have loads of tp for whatever you want. You could probably make your own 3-way SC via /sam.

But the real reason Ridill is not useable by blu - and pretty much all multi-hitters are unequippable by new jobs ('cept Joyeuse on cor because S-E deemed it "harmless") is because S-E knows they're game breaking. They don't want to fuel the fire any more than they have to.

S-E took the approach some time ago of adding new multi-hitters and they pretty uniformly suck, except for soboro. And that one's only good because of a plethora of indirect damage skills that Samurai has at it's disposal. This was S-E giving in "we can't nerf one, but we can boost everyone else." It didn't fix anything. They attempted a similar approach again recently with something... oh yeah, making the expansion pack ToAU which of course stands for "TPburns of Aht Urgan." "Let's make it so anyone melee can get rediculous exp w/out ever even considering working together or using any of the game mechanics that we've encouraged for 3 years!"

I suppose I could see that, but, really, if BLU got Ridill, it wouldn't do anything. Okay, BLU would put out a lot of damage and possibly be overpowered. I guess I can concede this. However, how accessible is Ridill? You'd need an HNMLS and a lot of clout in said LS to get your hands on Ridill, and that's assuming it drops, and THAT'S assuming you get claim. Ridill is all but untouchable to the "average" person.

Even if BLUs did get Ridill, and everyone had one, would it REALLY be that bad? I mean, people already level WAR to 75 just so they can dual wield axes and get ridiculous exp. It's no different than the previous bandwagon jobs of BLM and RNG. I highly doubt giving BLU Ridill would send game mechanics any further down the crapper than they already are.

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