Blue Mage - Mixed Responses

[Armando]

Re: Blue Mage - Mixed Responses

Now, almost every BLU I've come across uses the CASATA self SC method. However, wouldn't it be more practical to use that TP to power up your WS (you need 150 or 300 in the case of blue magic, unlike WS apparently) for a skill chain?

You don't need 150 TP to power up blue magic, they just opted to list the stats at 0 TP, 150 TP, and 300 TP much in the same way they do it at 100 TP, 200 TP, and 300 TP for WS. Anyways, yes, you can generally get more damage by having someone else open the skillchain and using your TP for a more powerful closing "WS" rather than using a weak WS at the expense of your TP and then a watered-down spell. Of course, that requires having a skillchain partner that can open the SC for you and that you won't keep waiting on very long.

So I could pretty much go to 75 as BLU with just WAR and WHM subs?

Eh, I'd want NIN and THF as you go higher up. /THF for SATA spells and really nice spike damage self-skillchains, and /NIN for the same thing WARs use it (reckless damage without repercussions.) I'd feel like I'd be missing out if I didn't have those two subs. /WHM is considered the most optional of all (though that doesn't make it any less good in the situations where it's desirable.)

[Sabaron]

Re: Blue Mage - Mixed Responses

Well, Thief really is the preferred job at higher level for DD, but I don't think anyone will fault you for /WAR except that you should be prepared to tank because you'll probably end up stealing hate. Using SATA gives the tank more enmity (a lot more).

Much of Blue Mage is play style. I have numerous subs which are all works in progress, but I primarily use BLM and WHM for RDM (90% WHM). I would say that, 20-30, Ninja is best (even without Utsusemi because of the extra DoT from the 10% delay bonus on Dual Wield), 30-40 WAR, and 40+ THF.

Blue Mage's primary role is DD, you will not get frequent invites for Main Heal. WAR and THF should be primary over WHM. WAR becomes situational after 40 (CASATA), so the only fully levelled sub you need is THF, but WAR is more versatile as far as your character's overall health.

I assume that since you're going to 75, you're looking to be a full-on Blue Mage Master. Therefore, level all subs. I think this procedure will do really well:

WAR -> 20
NIN -> 18 (optional sub sub for THF or just use WAR or RNG to 37)
BLU -> 40
THF -> 37
NIN -> 37 (Sub for BLU)
BLU ->75
WAR -> 37
BLM -> 18
WHM -> 37

This keeps you optimized at all levels when doing BLU. WHM added at the end for extra versatility doing this (from subless noob up):

Since I'm expecting your maining BLU, you should just take the better road rather than the faster one and level every sub you intend to use before you level BLU or keep your subs up-to-date.

I find /NIN to be rather unnecessary for BLU. At higher levels, you have Zephyr Mantle. The only reason you would use it is to appease the /NIN onry crowd which is, of course, a valid reason (since you might get invite denials), but it's not a great sub for DD. You can take hits and heal yourself. You have Stoneskin (albeit crappy) and Blink (low proc) shadows already. BLM/NIN IMO is not necessary. Dual Wield will boost your DoT on sword but it's not worth the losses from WAR and THF sub. WHM is totally optional.

[bikkebakke]

Re: Blue Mage - Mixed Responses

Just wondering because I absolutely hate NIN. Currently my WAR is 31, WHM 37, NIN 18, THF 15. So I guess I could just finish leveling WAR, NIN and THF for now /sigh.

[Sabaron]

Re: Blue Mage - Mixed Responses

Don't sub NIN unless you have to. It will reduce your output. SATA will keep you out of the limelight and help out the crappy tanks you are almost sure to encounter. NIN doesn't give anything close to the benefits of /WAR and /THF. It's basically a gimpy sub for BLU and a waste of a subjob at high level. Zephyr Mantle at 65 will further impinge upon it's usefulness. Zephyr Mantle is 4 Blink-style shadows (not 100% proc like Utsusemi). Once you get to 74, however, Utsusemi: Ni is still a great tool even though as a sub, now, you only get 3 shadows. Zephyr Mantle can be reapplied every 60 seconds but it has a casting time of 7, so you cannot reliably reapply it while under attack unlike Ni. It is only useful if you do not expect to be in the spotlight for very long. It's a great substitute for shadows when your DD'ing with a dedicated tank which most of the time, even when doing non-XP stuff, will be the case. Besides, if you are tanking you need /WAR anyway. /NIN's usefulness post 65 is similar to it's usage with RDM--solo only.

If you don't have Ni yet, just spend some seals (40 a pop) on some quick and easy Royal Jelly runs. You might even pick up an expensive and rare Archer's Ring.

[Malacite]

Re: Blue Mage - Mixed Responses

Armando, what I meant was blue magic gains bonuses at 150 and 300 TP, instead of the 100/200/300 method that weapon skills use (well, okay 100 doesn't really count lol)


I can't find the guide I read that from for the life of me > _< it's driving me nuts. It's a massive and very detailed guide that shows every spell, exact modifiers etc... - .- wish I could find it again so I could post the link.

[Karinya]

Re: Blue Mage - Mixed Responses

Armando, what I meant was blue magic gains bonuses at 150 and 300 TP, instead of the 100/200/300 method that weapon skills use (well, okay 100 doesn't really count lol)
I can't find the guide I read that from for the life of me > _< it's driving me nuts. It's a massive and very detailed guide that shows every spell, exact modifiers etc... - .- wish I could find it again so I could post the link.

Actually, that's not true. fTP is a continuous function for both WS and blue magic (although for some WS/blue magic it is flat, or nonlinear). It's just measured at those specific points for convenience, because it's too time consuming to do separate measurements at 100, 101, 102, 103, 104... 299, 300. (And for blue magic, 0, 1, 2, ... 99 too.)

It's true that party leaders will not expect a BLU to have /WHM - but that's not because they don't *want* it, it's just because the great majority of BLUs don't have the subjob, appropriate gear, or any interest in taking the healer role. If you're actually willing to play roles other than DD, have appropriate subjobs and equipment and advertise it in your /seacom, you will get invites for it.

It's pretty much the same as WAR tanking. WAR can tank quite well, even at high levels, *if they are prepared to do so*. Most party leaders despair of finding a WAR that is willing and ready to tank, so they only invite WAR to DD (which, fortunately, they're also pretty good at). But a WAR that is ready to tank if that's what the party needs can get tanking invites and do quite well as a tank; so can a BLU, as a tank or a healer.

It's just that for both of those jobs, the vast majority of the players in them have a DD-only mentality, in which they're unwilling to even try any other role (and unprepared for it, so if they are coerced into trying it they don't do it well). Then other people who don't understand what's really going on blame the job and not the player, which allows the players to get away with playing only a fraction of their job. (And in the meantime 12 people stand around LFP because they can't find any tanks, while there are several WAR and BLU looking.)

[Kholdstare]

Re: Blue Mage - Mixed Responses

It's just that for both of those jobs, the vast majority of the players in them have a DD-only mentality, in which they're unwilling to even try any other role (and unprepared for it, so if they are coerced into trying it they don't do it well). Then other people who don't understand what's really going on blame the job and not the player, which allows the players to get away with playing only a fraction of their job. (And in the meantime 12 people stand around LFP because they can't find any tanks, while there are several WAR and BLU looking.)

\

I think the reason behind this is that, really, if I wanted to play a main heal, I'd be a WHM. If I wanted to tank, I'd be a PLD or a NIN. I highly doubt people pick BLU with "I'm gonna be such an awesome main healer" in mind. BLU is a lot like a SMN in that regard. Just because they CAN do something, it doesn't mean they want to.

[Malacite]

Re: Blue Mage - Mixed Responses

I think the reason behind this is that, really, if I wanted to play a main heal, I'd be a WHM. If I wanted to tank, I'd be a PLD or a NIN. I highly doubt people pick BLU with "I'm gonna be such an awesome main healer" in mind. BLU is a lot like a SMN in that regard. Just because they CAN do something, it doesn't mean they want to.

You could say the same thing about SMN >_>b

[Armando]

Re: Blue Mage - Mixed Responses

I don't know. If you can do it without going too far out of your way, and there's really a need for it, does it really hurt that much to do it every now and then? You could apply the same logic to RDM main healing; many of them still do it when it's needed, though, far more than BLUs do.

[Mouser]

Re: Blue Mage - Mixed Responses

When fighting Imps in the Mire, I actually prefer switching over to /WHM and main healing (and staying safely out of range). Between AOE Silence and Amnesia, I otherwise get reduced to whapping them with a sword for a good chunk of a fight, and Amnesia completely shuts down CASATA potential. Also, at higher levels, CASATA is rarely used since people aren't skill chaining, and won't turn the mob to let you plant hate on the tank, forcing you to just CASA and eat the hate yourself and try to keep Zephyr Mantle up.

The main advantage of /NIN isn't so much the shadows (since with a good tank it shouldn't be an issue), but the ability to get the stat boosts of an off hand weapon (I find a Mythic Wand nice to use and have the Club skill to do so).

[Karinya]

Re: Blue Mage - Mixed Responses

\
I think the reason behind this is that, really, if I wanted to play a main heal, I'd be a WHM. If I wanted to tank, I'd be a PLD or a NIN.

And if I wanted to DD, I'd be a DRG, MNK, DRK, RNG, BLM... When did people get the idea that BLU can outdamage jobs that are designed from the ground up to DD? They can't. Get a parser. BLU can do a decent amount of damage while also filling other roles; or they can solo pretty damn well (although exp rates for solo remain slow, BLU can handle mobs that would kill other soloers).

I highly doubt people pick BLU with "I'm gonna be such an awesome main healer" in mind. BLU is a lot like a SMN in that regard. Just because they CAN do something, it doesn't mean they want to.

BLU's strength is its versatility. If you're not using that, you're only playing half the job. Why should you expect that to be effective?

A WHM is going to be a healer in every party they join. A NIN is going to be a tank in almost every party they join. A DRG is going to be a DD in every party they join. A BRD is going to be a supporter in every party they join. That's because those jobs are highly specialized for their respective roles. BLU isn't. BLU can do something different in every party they join (well, they have to repeat eventually, but you know what I mean).

In fact, BLU *is* an awesome main healer; they're the only healer that can get Conserve MP and Auto-Refresh at the same time. While still keeping Divine Seal and -na spells, even. They're also an excellent backup healer while still doing a moderate amount of damage, and they have some unique debuffs even RDM can't match. So please stop spamming Bludgeon and learn to use the full capabilities of the job. (Not addressed to any one person, but to the DDBLU community in general.)

[Armando]

Re: Blue Mage - Mixed Responses

The main advantage of /NIN isn't so much the shadows (since with a good tank it shouldn't be an issue), but the ability to get the stat boosts of an off hand weapon (I find a Mythic Wand nice to use and have the Club skill to do so).

The stats on an offhand weapon are for the most part replaceable and secondary to, at the very least, the Dual Wield delay reduction. Besides, using a Mythic Wand in the offhand would totally kill your damage...unless you're using it for something else?

[Sabaron]

Re: Blue Mage - Mixed Responses

You would never "off-hand" a wand. If you're going +STAT, sit in the back and dual-wield wands. If you're going damage, stay in the front and use two swords. Trying a balanced approach will get you meh results on both sides--your Healing will go down without /WHM and you lose access to your DS/-na/Erase/Raise and your Melee will go down because you've decided to put the worst possible DD weapon in your off-hand slot this side of Ceremonial Dagger (on a non-RDM), a wand...

I still say level all subs if you're maining BLU. No reason to not try everything it's capable of. Yes, you can get by with the DD subs, but do you really want to be a pigeon-hole BLU?

[Karinya]

Re: Blue Mage - Mixed Responses

No offense intended to BLU, but inviting a BLU to DD on imps or anticans is about as smart as inviting a DRG, RNG or THF to DD on bones, or BLM on pots and ahrimans. It's just a really, really bad job-to-monster matchup.

How can people not think about issues like that when building parties and selecting camps?

I still say level all subs if you're maining BLU. No reason to not try everything it's capable of. Yes, you can get by with the DD subs, but do you really want to be a pigeon-hole BLU?

Apparently that's exactly what a considerable number of BLUs do want. I don't understand it, but there they are.

[Malacite]

Re: Blue Mage - Mixed Responses

I primarily DD on my BLU, but I do have other subs available should the need arise. I think being as versatile as you can in any job is important to a good player ^^b


I *loathe* being a tank, but I have /WAR and /NIN should I have to. Also, despite being an Elvaan (lower MP) I'm still kinda interesting in trying BLU/WHM in a either a main, but preferably back up healer role. The beauty of that combo is both dealing damage and healing at the same time, all the while taking the beats in stride thanks to spells like Stoneskin and Cocoon ^_^