..."fails to take effect"...

[Shinoe]

I've seen an error that states
"Shinoe casts Sprout Smack on the xxx, but the spell fails to take effect".

I've seen this soloing every now and then, but last night i had a PT in the doonz, and it happened all the damned time. It was driving me nuts! I ended up tanking, and even did the first few pulls. From the start, while i was using Metallic Body, Cocoon, Provoke, and Sandspin / Sprout Smack / Foot Kick (foot kick is a joke in my opinion...but lizards are weak against it..so it was doing about 15 damage for 5mp...). Normally any idiot with provoke can tank in the dunes, but with 3 BLM randomly getting crits on Aero and have a sudden spike in hate, if 'voke was down, i was screwed. I'd use a quick sprout Smack to whack the mob in place, and Pollen myself for good measure...but ...
"Shinoe casts Sprout Smack on the xxx, but the spell fails to take effect".

Sprout Smack, Power Attack, Foot Kick, Sandspin ... they all did this, a lot. Any idea why? The lizards were T-VT...and i've heard people say that it's easy to solo Tough at about this level of BLU...so i dont see how they can do that unless they arent getting these resists (if they're even resists). blue magic was, and always is, capped as soon as i level. I'll spam spells to empty my pool, then zone a crab or something, until its leveled. or just spam my Pollen macro.

A few reasons i can see why its happening...although i didnt have a chance to test it:
- the 'added effect' of my spells were already on the mob: ie, Sprout Smack uses Slow, but was already on the mob (not at level 11 it's not...they dont get that until 13WHM, and we had no WHM).
- resists (why so many in a party but never on T-VT mobs when i wasnt in this party?)
- blue magic skill (was capped...but i dunno).
- stats (need more INT, etc?).

FOr stats, there are numerous guides that tell you what the base stat usage for each spell is...does it matter that much that i need to bring a crapload of gear with me for each spell, to macro it in so it does more damage?

just wondering if anyone else had this problem. While i was a better tank than most warriors i've seen at that level....more MP than a PLD...it was mind boggling that i was doing damage only with my sword and MP not being worth it to waste on any spell but Pollen.

[Karinya]

Re: ..."fails to take effect"...

The only thing I can say for sure about this message is that it happens more when the monster's type is strong against the spell's type (e.g. sprout smack on a beetle) or is the same type as the spell's type (sprout smack on a mandy). This explains your problem with power attack and sandspin, but not the others.

Some people have suggested that this message indicates a resist (which would be affected by level and skill), others that it indicates a miss (level and accuracy - although the accuracy of blue magic may also be based on your blue magic skill rather than your skill with your equipped weapon, I don't remember). In either case there's likely little you can do about it other than gain more levels and keep your skills capped.

I *have* seen a noticeable amount of failed spells when soloing Ts, but it's possible to solo them anyway if you keep up cocoon, repeat the enfeeble ones until they stick, pollen when necessary, etc. There is a big difference between a minimum tough (1 level above you) and a maximum tough (4 levels above you), of course, and I think most people suggesting soloing toughs on BLU mean *low* toughs, only 1-2 levels above you. Unless your exp per kill was dipping under 50 (for a 6 person party), your toughs were *high* toughs, and thus a level or two tougher than anything you really want to try soloing - and that's not even counting the VTs and the low ITs.

[Shinoe]

Re: ..."fails to take effect"...

That makes sense. I was thinking it had to do with the resists but wasnt sure.

I spent a few hours last night fighting Yagudo in Tahrongi trying to learn Feather Storm. I was able to take out most Tough mobs (the melee types came close to killing me every now and then), but i never tried the T Dahlmels in the area. They just seemed a bit high.

How would you know if they're 1-2 levels above you or more? Everything always conns Tough with Hi Def/Eva, or at least it seems that way.

[Armando]

Re: ..."fails to take effect"...

When a spell fails to take effect it missed altogether. Multi-hit spells generally don't give the message nearly as often because it would require all hits to miss; rest assured though that the individual hits can very well miss. For melee spells, it's mostly an issue of your Accuracy vs the mob's Evasion, mob family, and how many levels the mob is higher than you. Melee blue spells aren't subject to resists. Basically, up your Accuracy (sushi works if you're high enough to make it worth it,) fight lower level mobs (for every level the mob is higher than you, your hitting rate and spell accuracy get penalized regardless of the mob's stats) and keep in mind that you get damage and accuracy bonuses for using spells from a mob family that beats the mob's, and take equal penalties when the mob's family beats your spell's.
Sandstorm is magical so your melee accuracy doesn't affect it, it's mainly based on your Blue Magic Skill vs the mob's elemental resistance, and once again how many levels higher it is compared to you. If you really feel you need to land a certain magical spell unresisted, the Lv.15 elemental ninjutsu could be used to give the mob a guaranteed -30 resistance for 15 seconds. Of course, carrying tools for such limited use can be pretty inconvenient. You could ask a BRD for threnody, but I forget if those are easily overwritable, and the SC/MB would take priority.
And, sadly, no, there's no reliable way to know how many levels higher than you a T mob is in comparison to you. Usually if you're eating Attack food you can get mobs that are one or two levels higher than you to not check High Defense. If it checks High Defense even with Attack food you're probably better off not messing with it.

EDIT: Note that it's possible for your spells to land but the added effect to get fully resisted and not stick. It's most evident with Head Butt since if the stun sticks you'll get the message of it wearing off at most 5-6 seconds later.

[Macht]

Re: ..."fails to take effect"...

Memory might be a bit off. But I also recall something about BLU's and spells they have equipped effecting their performance.

Basically it boils down to that the slotted spells change your behavior. If you equip a lot of plant based spells then you'd be just as vunerable as what the plant types are. I had always guessed that this means the weakness could carry over. Came to that conclusion since each spell does give you stat bonuses and other attributes. I see no reason why a spell could not have hidden negative attributes tied to them as well. Latent type attributes that only kick in if say you engage a fight with a beast type that is strong to one of those spells in your slots.

[Armando]

Re: ..."fails to take effect"...

I've never seen/heard of anything like that The only thing I know of that sounds similar is getting Killer traits by having two physical blue spells of the same mob family (i.e. Sprout Smack + Wild Oats = Beast Killer.)

[Shinoe]

Re: ..."fails to take effect"...

Well when you equip spells, they do enhance your stats. I could be wrong (im at work), but Wild Oats gives +1 VIT, Sprout Smack gives +1MND, Queasyshroom gives -5hp +5mp, Power Attack +1 STR, etc.

And yes, certain combinations of spells equipped give various job traits.
Sprout Smack + Wild Oats = Beast Killer
Sheep Song + Healing Breeze = Auto-Regen (at level 16).

Also, and i can't remember where i got it, there's this extremely awesome PDF file that someone made that has everything you ever needed to know about BLU in it. Skillchains, magic bursts, the stats that each spell is based off of, what combinations you need for various job traits, mob family weaknesses, the entire spell list...and not to mention, it looks cool as hell too. I'll have to upload it if i remember, when i get home (if it isn't on this site already). For instance, Pollen is based off of MND, Feather Storm (i think) is 30% of your STR, etc.

[Macht]

Re: ..."fails to take effect"...

I've never seen/heard of anything like that The only thing I know of that sounds similar is getting Killer traits by having two physical blue spells of the same mob family (i.e. Sprout Smack + Wild Oats = Beast Killer.)

Well, like I said don't quite remember. It's a vauge memory since all this I had was from April 18, 2006 or later. I do distinctly remember a statement of how blue magic's effectiveness can change depending on which you use and what you fight.

For the release info pertaining to accuracy, the release notes states this:

Physical based Blue Magic: Accuracy is affected by equipped weapon. I would take it then that this means the mage is altering the properties of the attacking weapon to replicate that physical based attacked. So of course if the mage is has feeble skill with the weapon that he can't hit with it naturally then same outcome should happen if he used the spell.

Monster Family of Blue Magic: Accuracy and Damage of Blue Magic skills are effected by their relation in the Monster Families.

With that it seems to state that Physical based Blue Magic will take a double wammy on accuracy. It first takes one if your weapon skill is low and then takes another if monster families are a bad combination.

Which for the most part seems like what is happening there.

EDIT:

From the sound and reading it seems that if you want the fight to go better then you should have weapon skill capped, and then make sure to use Blue Magic that is of a Monster Family it will be weak too. This is a way of keeping it so that you can't just pick to smash any old mob and expect the same result, there is some planning you've got to do.

This also seems to suggest that if you want attacks that more reliable then it might be best to use magical based Blue Magic and make sure it's one that the mob will be directly weak too for best results.

[Shinoe]

Re: ..."fails to take effect"...

The only thing is, my {sword} skill is capped out until level 32, and blue magic is always capped. I guess it's just a bad turn of events. It's ok though, lately i've just been running around gathering Mandies, Saplings, Rabbits, and bees in Tahrongi while Metallic Body + Cocoon is up, and just Battle Dance/Sandspin them all to oblivion. It's actually a fairly nice way to get 200+ exp with minimal chance of dying, and of course you have to rest afterwards, but fighting a Tough will do the same thing and leave you with less exp gained for the same amount of resting.

Good stuff ^^

I still can't seem to learn Feather Storm. My biggest pain in Tahrongi out of all the mobs would be the Yagudo Persecutor...for some reason, even though he's Tough, i can't kill them. Damned persecutors are the cause of my last 4 (and only) deaths! So if anyone's out there in the Canyon, be careful ^^ kill everything but the damned samurai yagudo!

Although i found for learning skills....Lotus Blade (from the sword festival?) is AWESOME for letting the mob gain TP. I crit for 3 damage with that thing. mwuahah!

[Dryhus]

Re: ..."fails to take effect"...

Aero can't crit.

[Shinoe]

Re: ..."fails to take effect"...

Aero can't crit.

Aero? The spell? Sure it can...but i was talking about the Lotus Blade critting for 3 damage...it has 1 base damage...so i'm not sure what you're talking about?

[Armando]

Re: ..."fails to take effect"...

Magic can't crit.

[Shinoe]

Re: ..."fails to take effect"...

Magic can't crit.

Nevermind, the problem with old threads is that i forgot what we were talking about. Yes, magic can "crit", but it's not a crit in the log. When i refer to it as a "crit", i'm speaking of the difference between normal damage and a spike in damage. for instance, 70, 70, 70, 80, 120, 90, etc.

[ItazuraNhomango]

Re: ..."fails to take effect"...

There's no such thing as a "critical" damage from magic, I think; you can get no resist (i.e. full damage), or partial resist (i.e. smaller damage), or full resist (i.e. no damage).

Probably.

[Armando]

Re: ..."fails to take effect"...

What Itazura said. Magic damage has a fixed value. It can get resisted, making it do a fraction of what it should've done, but it'll never exceed its unresisted damage. Basically, your max damage is your "normal" damage. If you noticed a spike in your casting, that means most of your other casts were resisted, which is never good.

I don't think you can get a full resist for damaging spells under normal conditions, though. I think you need negative (Caster INT - Mob INT) differences to score 0 damage aside from getting a strong resist. Then again, I haven't read much on that particular phenomenon, I could be wrong.