Chance to learn lost for good?

[Ayukawa]

Heard a rumor the other day that was unsettling to me, that if you are too far ABOVE the level of a spelll, you can't learn it. I know that you have to be within X levels if you're below the required level to be able to learn it, but above?

I'm level 62 and still missing Frightful Roar and Radiant Breath due to a lack of CoP-progressed friends. Have I seriously blown my chance to learn spells still? And if so, what about the new low/mid level spells I'm already 20 levels above? I can't learn those either?

[eva00r]

Re: Chance to learn lost for good?

No, period. I learnt sandspin at lv 73.

[Sabaron]

Re: Chance to learn lost for good?

The problem with learning spells from Too Weaks is that you will often need an assistant of very low level. Even a punch from a high level character can often destroy very weak monsters. The monster will also be unable to hit you and it may take a very long time for it to accumulate enough TP to actually use an ability (and it may not use the one you're looking for).

To learn a spell from a very weak mob, just party up with a weaker comrade and let them go to town, PLing them until you get the spell. It's just the inverse of learning the very hard spells with a higher-level friend.

[Armando]

Re: Chance to learn lost for good?

No, period. I learnt sandspin at lv 73.

Wow.

Safest, least-lethal way to feed a mob TP: Spam Dia on it. For every Dia you land for more than 0 damage, it's 10 TP for it (unless you're subbing /NIN, then you have to take Subtle Blow into account as well...) If you're high enough that Too Weak mobs are too fragile for you, then you should have more than enough MP for Dia spam.

[Taskmage]

Re: Chance to learn lost for good?

An idea I haven't personally tried: sub whm and Dia it ten times. That should give it 100% tp without killing it.

Edit: Aww, outposted.

[Armando]

Re: Chance to learn lost for good?

I'm sorry ;o; When my drawings turn out fugly I lurk around the forums too much D: I'll let you take credit for the idea if you turn me into a mod for 15 minutes, though >:3

[Sabaron]

Re: Chance to learn lost for good?

I hadn't thought of that... You wouldn't be subbing NIN though because you couldn't cast Dia so Subtle Blow is a moot point.

[EDIT: Add]

I have used Blood Drain to do something similar since it does such pitiful damage, but Dia is soo much weaker...

[Icemage]

Re: Chance to learn lost for good?

You have to be a bit careful. Dia only gives TP when it deals at least 1 point of damage on the initial casting. Like all spells, it is the direct damage portion that gives TP, so if you cast it on something too strong, it might deal 0 damage and net you no TP on the target.

I used this trick a lot when doing testing for physical damage resistance against 1000 Needles.


Icemage

[Armando]

Re: Chance to learn lost for good?

Oh, yeah! While we're on the subject, do try to take your target to below 20% HP whenever possible, otherwise you may be waiting quite a bit. In case you didn't know, above 20% HP, mobs do a random check at each attack round to decide wether or not they'll use their TP - and believe me, the chances of them using it aren't that high, even if they already have 200+ TP. Below 20% HP, they'll use their TP as soon as it reaches 100+.

[hongman]

Re: Chance to learn lost for good?

Is this for ALL mobs? ^^

[Armando]

Re: Chance to learn lost for good?

Some NMs may ignore that rule, but pretty much, yeah. Rules of TP gain:
- When an enemy is hit by a melee attack, it gains the Attacker's TP Gain +3 (Reduced by Subtle Blow %)
- When an enemy hits someone, it gains TP according to its Delay, just like us. The great majority of non-MNK mobs have 240 Delay (exactly 4 seconds, standard longsword Delay) which translates into 6.4 TP. Although, as of late S-E's been making more and more mobs that are just slightly faster than that, to make it tougher on the NINs I would assume.
- When an enemy is hit by a spell, if that spell landed for any sort of (non-DoT) damage (i.e. higher than 0) it'll gain 10 TP (reduced by Subtle Blow.)
- Multi-hit Blue Magic does give 10 TP per hit. Use that to your advantage.
*If the mob's HP > 20% (and TP > 99), there's a chance it'll use its TP on each attack round. This is how most freak tanking accidents happen (yh'llothar critical double attack into a Sickle Slash!)
*If the mob's HP < 20%, it'll use its TP as soon as it gets 100+. If the mob had 100+ and its HP drops below 20%, it'll use its TP immediately (you can anticipate TP moves this way.)
** If the mob has more than 100 TP and less than 20% HP, but its targets are out of range, it'll use a self-buff TP move. If it lacks a self-buff TP move, it'll hit the nearest target with its longest-reaching TP move the second that target comes within range of that move.

EDIT: Just wanted to point out that Store TP does not count towards the TP the mob gains when hit, making it a sort of inverse Subtle Blow (rather than the mob getting less TP while our gain stays the same, we gain more TP while the mob's gain stays the same.)

[hongman]

Re: Chance to learn lost for good?

Im impressed with the AI.

As I was when I saw one gob casting Protect II on another, then itself, then both aggroing to some passer by and casting C3 mid battle.

[Armando]

Re: Chance to learn lost for good?

You know what's funny, though? I once saw a Fomor Paladin intimidate a Fomor Bard because the Fomor Paladin has Undead Killer and the Bard played a song that targetted the Paladin. The irony was killing me. Also, I think I've had beastmen be too far away to link but still cast Cure III on the mob I'm fighting.

Oh, yeah. There's a funny trick you can do against mobs with mostly close-range TP moves. If you're running away from them, you have just enough time to get out of their range in the time it takes them to ready their TP move (which is less than a second, and if Blue Magic is any indication, probably half a second.) The move won't hit and it'll lose its TP. I've done this to avoid Death Scissors and Goblin Rush (I knew the mob had TP, and I knew that my next hit would take it under 20%.) Another cool trick I learnt is that if you go into first-person view and run backwards while facing the mob (have to be unlocked, otherwise you won't run) you'll run away full-speed but you can still hit them, shield block, and probably parry. You can use those two tricks to avoid being hit by a lot of attacks when soloing. Oh, yeah, and you can run away from Smite of Rage while it's charging.

Oh, yeah. Fun trick #3: WS's actually have slightly more range than both ours and the mob's autoattacks. If you space yourself perfectly, you can hit silenced worms with any WS without coming into its attack range.

[Celeal]

Re: Chance to learn lost for good?

Very nice tricks, Armando Thank you, that is very interesting ^o^

Another trick for Glaze type attack, like Bateful Glaze (pertify) from Lizard/Cocktrice or Blank Glaze from Opo-opo, you can unlock the auto-target, turn and face away (turn your back at the mob) from the mob to avoid the effect.

[Armando]

Re: Chance to learn lost for good?

Any time ;3 Now you know what I've been doing these past 2 years of playing XD

I believe you mean "Baleful Gaze." ^^ I knew about that, but I'm always distracted with other things and get hit by it anyways >.>;; That, or I do something like throwing up a JA or using a WS and it decides to use Baleful Gaze while I can't move. I have the worst luck with Lizards and Cockatrice ._.; There was this one time I was tanking as PLD/RDM though, and I got hit by a Lizard's petrify gaze, and got "Resist! Armando resists the effect of the spell." It made me appreciate Resist Petrify a hell of a whole lot more XD

Here's another trick: Make a macro with gear swaps so that your spell's animation occurs while your character is blinking, thus skipping it. When the mob is close to 20%, Head Butt it and run. It'll try to hit you with a TP move, but you'll be too far away. Also works if you don't use the gear swap trick, but of course your chances are higher if you do use it. You could also use that same trick to unlock, Head Butt, run through the mob, and SA Spell from behind. My favorite trick will always be Flashing the mob just before it does a TP move, though ;D