When does self-skillchain start getting really good?

[AlexisLucia]

Re: When does self-skillchain start getting really good?

If i may ask, how exactly do you test this? As far as i know you cant see mob tp.. unless you do it on ballista / bst pets?

After testing and confirming that a mob receives 0 TP when it hits you for 0 (a low level mob never ever used special attacks after some 15-20 minutes of 0-hits due to stoneskin) a RDM did the following:


The RDM kept up stonesin/phalanx/etc on a mid-level mob (such that she could hit it for damage but it really had no chance of hurting her, and she could keep stoneskin/phalanx up indefinitely). This was to ensure that the only way a mob got TP was from her actions.

She then performed hours of testing based on the TP she knew she was receiving, and comparing it to when the mob would WS. She would continually hit for low damage (0-2, with a low level weapon) and ignored 0-hits, as they did not give the mob TP.
Until 50% HP, the mob randomly use TP, sometimes holding at what she determined to be 300 %TP for quite some time. The mob would never WS before (her TP + 3%/hit) * # of hits =~ 100
Between 50% and 25% HP remaining, the mob randomly use TP, but never before would use always sometime between (her TP + 3%/hit) * # of hits =~ 100, and always would WS by the time the mob hit (her TP + 3%/hit) * # of hits =~ 300.
Below 25% The mob would always use a WS when it reached (her TP + 3%/hit) * # of hits =~ 100.

She then wend and did the same thing with a lowlevel nuke, which hit for very little damage. The mob <25% health would always WS @ 10 nukes.

If you want to quantitatively test this for yourself, I'd suggest doing the same, however the previous testing by others with both magic, and my own experience spamming bludgeon leads me to believe the above. I personally don't need tests on it.

[Armando]

Re: When does self-skillchain start getting really good?

Mm, that's an overlycomplicated and indirect way of testing. I did as BLU/BST, putting up Cocoon + Metallic Body, Bludgeoning something, and quickly Charming -> <mobtp>.

[AlexisLucia]

Re: When does self-skillchain start getting really good?

Mm, that's an unreliable and overly difficult way of testing. I did as BLU/BST, putting up Cocoon + Metallic Body, Bludgeoning something, and quickly Charming -> <mobtp>.

That would definitely work better.
I hadn't personally thought of that, forgive my lack of knowledge about BST and beastpets.

[Armando]

Re: When does self-skillchain start getting really good?

Nah, I didn't think about it either until I read it XD Oh, by the way, the percentage at which mobs start using their TP as soon as it reaches 100 is 20% of HP. Although, I didn't know they'd stop holding it to 300 if their HP dropped below 50%.

[Erased]

Re: When does self-skillchain start getting really good?

I'm well aware of the mob TP-giving, as well as Sound Blast doing seemingly-nothing to make it less frequent (TP reduction on mobs). I'll have to sub BST to see what's really going on.

The only use either chain or burst affinity has seen by me now is to open or close an SC with a sam every other time his meditate is up. Everyone else has better WSes to contribute to damage and it isn't worth waiting on affinity or for me to get TP.

I never spam bludgeon on anything with a lethal aoe, like flies or scorpions. I've been in groups with other BLUs that spam bludgeon and gets the group Cursed Sphered 4 times a fight. Does Light of Penance help at all? The TP giving really is a huge drawback, especially in BCs..

[Armando]

Re: When does self-skillchain start getting really good?

I'm well aware of the mob TP-giving, as well as Sound Blast doing seemingly-nothing to make it less frequent (TP reduction on mobs). I'll have to sub BST to see what's really going on.

Not high enough to use Sound Blast yet, but if you consider how stupidly quick mobs get TP (think of how many melee swings are hitting it in any period of time, giving the mob at least 8 TP per hit) it's not hard to imagine that 1) the mob is regaining it really quick, or 2) you dropped it from a really high ammount of TP to a lower ammount that's still above 100.

[Drive]

Re: When does self-skillchain start getting really good?

Soundblast reduces tp? I thought it only lowered int. light of Penance and Feather Tickle reduces tp though. Feather Tickle even lowers to 0% but I am not sure of its recast or resist rate. Light of Penance, doesn't land very often but that could also be based on the fact that along with lowered tp it also does bind and blindness i believe.

[Releena]

Re: When does self-skillchain start getting really good?

Sound Blast doesn't reduce TP. While trying to learn it you'll notice you never lose any TP, nor is "lowers TP" in the spell description. Likewise when BLU mobs use it on you your TP always stays the same. AFAIK this was erroneously stated in a thread listing what all BLU spells were on KI.

[Argent]

Re: When does self-skillchain start getting really good?

Well, back to the question posed:

I find Self-SCing very rewarding and beneficial, if not for your damage-dealing capabilities but at the very least for the mages in your party. BLUs usually (though I do understand a few solo) don't live in a vacuum. Part of the benefit of mcking SCs is to open up MBs for your mages.

That being said, a couple of self SCs I find useful:

Red Lotus Blade --> Head Butt = Fusion (MB Bomb Toss)
Red Lotus Blade --> Battle Dance = Fusion (MB Bomb Toss)
Red Lotus Blade --> Sickle Slash = Gravitation (MB MP Drainkiss)
Circle Blade --> Mandibular Bite = Impaction (MB Ice Break)

--Generally-- speaking, I just about always set these spells for the beneficial use, and having the MB is all the better.

Don't foget that the amount of damage the SC produces is also determined by the amount of damage the spell/WS that opens the SC deals. My prefered method of choice, then is CABA (Weaponskill) > SA (Spell) = MB

Record to date? 1200 damage with the Circle Blade > Mandibular one (Lv. 61). MBed for 250 (not mentioning my party's BLM's ludicrous spell damage).

And even if you don't deal great damage, the point is it opens an opportunity for your party to do so.

[Armando]

Re: When does self-skillchain start getting really good?

Don't foget that the amount of damage the SC produces is also determined by the amount of damage the spell/WS that opens the SC deals.

This bit is wrong. A skillchain's base damage (to which you'd apply day/weather/staff bonuses) depends solely on the closing TP move's damage.

[Argent]

Re: When does self-skillchain start getting really good?

Oops, yeah, you are right. I meant to say what you said but I wrote the other way around instead. My bad ^_^;

[Rambus]

Re: When does self-skillchain start getting really good?

Circle Blade> SACA mandibular bite can yild high induration damage then at 50 you can use ice brake to mb it though ice brake even putting in staff etc is less mp efficient then AM spells

[seq]

Re: When does self-skillchain start getting really good?

Engage a mob. Cast Bludgeon. Cast Bludgeon Again, Cast blugeon Again. Cast it one more time. If the mob uses a TP move, Bludgeon gives more then 10 a hit. It's not really that hard.

as BST43 i've charmed a dead BST's mob to check it's TP, 150TP unused. are you sure they use their WS once they reach 100TP?
i let my pet fight a mob 'till it died then charmed the one i'm fighting, it had 160TP unused.
i've tested a one spell's TP as BST/WHM using Dia>Charm and <pettp> to check it's TP, no it isn't 10TP it's 5TP.
as for mobs's TP, it never changed the DMG all that much. so it isn't something you should worry about (if you do, a 1H axe with 280 delay gave the mob 10TP, WAR/NIN's two swings are more than 20TP? /cry).

as for the OP,
you may be better self-skillchaining and let the mages MB if your MB isn't worth the MP.

[Rambus]

Re: When does self-skillchain start getting really good?

i've tested a one spell's TP as BST/WHM using Dia>Charm and <pettp> to check it's TP, no it isn't 10TP it's 5TP.
as for mobs's TP, it never changed the DMG all that much. so it isn't something you should worry about (if you do, a 1H axe with 280 delay gave the mob 10TP, WAR/NIN's two swings are more than 20TP? /cry).

i did that and it gave me 10, when did you do it? maybe an update change we didn't know about?

[Armando]

Re: When does self-skillchain start getting really good?

as BST43 i've charmed a dead BST's mob to check it's TP, 150TP unused. are you sure they use their WS once they reach 100TP?
i let my pet fight a mob 'till it died then charmed the one i'm fighting, it had 160TP unused.

Mobs do not use their TP as soon as it reaches 100% except under one condition: they're at 20% or less HP. Otherwise, they hold it and have a chance to use it every attack round (this is how most freak one-shot accidents occur...Spider decides to Sickle Slash on the same attack round it decides to double attack, and one/two of those hits crit...then the tank ends up losing a fuckload of HP near-instantaneously.)

i've tested a one spell's TP as BST/WHM using Dia>Charm and <pettp> to check it's TP, no it isn't 10TP it's 5TP.

It's 10 TP. Unless you somehow equipped +50 Subtle Blow.

as for mobs's TP, it never changed the DMG all that much. so it isn't something you should worry about

Mob TP does affect their moves drastically. For example, when spiders are dying and they "spam" their TP moves, Sickle Slash tends not to hurt nearly as much, because using it at 100 TP makes it unlikely to crit. However, it's still something we shouldn't worry about, because we have no measures to reduce their TP gain by a significant ammount.