Blue Mages are being tweaked?

[greydaze]

Re: Blue Mages are being tweaked?

In that case it is us who need a boost, Tier II enfs, Refresh II or at least Refreshga, Regen II and proper JSE for lvl 70+, etc.

"Adjusting" BLU will only make players unhappy.

Let's see, how has SE made players unhappy in the past?

• DRG: Pentathrust Nerf
• RNG and NIN: Ranged Nerf
• BST: MPK "fix"
• NIN: Shadow-Hate Nerf

I'm sure there's more, but I know that even though SE tried to placate those affected by changes to jobs, often they come too late for the reputations of the jobs affected. Honestly, I don't think DRG recovered from the changes to pentathrust until just recently, and might never completely. RNG has suffered horribly, since the proce of ammo remains the same, and yet damage has been decreased and more difficult to achieve, making people hesitant to PT with them (not to mention that many noob RNG don't understand that you can't melee and still do decent arrow DMG). NIN can't get the hate it once did from very expensive shurikens; However, with the NIN +enmity gear, they have been placated almost completely for the hate lost when shadows go down. And BST... Ah, the poor BSTs, who lose the ability to dismiss and re-charm for a "fix" to the MPK system that really didn't fix things.

I'm still waiting to see how SE handles the situations they've created with BST and RNG, and hope this drastic sort of thing never happens to BLU. However, looking at thier track record, if enough whiners from the minority complain, they'll nerf the job to high heaven (such as with MPK fix, DRG nerf, RNG nerf). Hopefully, a small change to the early levels will be made and will be enough to silence the nay-sayers.

As a BLM, I love MBing off solo-chains, and would hate to see some sort of nerf that made BLUs anathematic to the rest of Vana'diel.

[Karinya]

Re: Blue Mages are being tweaked?

I really have no major issues with the way BLU work overall right now, but I do think some of their spells could use some alterations.

There's no reason that Geist Wall should have such horrible accuracy at dispelling effects, for instance (and on the flip side, Bludgeon is just ridiculously good for a short span of levels). Jettatura's miniscule duration doesn't jibe well with the way it works on players, even when the hippogryffs are relatively low level, and the way Pollen doesn't scale is criminal, considering that I've seen Volcanic Wasps in Ifrit's Cauldron use the move to recover over 1000 HP...

Volcanic Wasps are spending 100+ TP to use that move (the 1000+ cases are probably over 200 TP). BLUs are spending 8 MP. If the cost isn't going to scale up, it would be absurd to allow the effectiveness to scale up without limit. If you want bigger cures (from level 22-58), sub WHM. If cures aren't that important to you - well, that's your decision. Subjob choice exists for a reason and players who decide on one subjob aren't entitled to whine about not having the benefits of another.

I wouldn't be opposed to seeing another healing blue magic added, but I don't think it's necessary and I don't think the ultra cheap Pollen should be made more effective. BLU is clearly not designed to be a party main healer (although they probably *could* with /WHM, the same way SMN and BLM can if they really want to, at considerable cost to their ability to do other things).

SE has to be very careful with stun-like effects to avoid creating a situation where a monster can be perpetually stunned/terrorized and unable to fight at all. BLU is already way ahead of any other job in the game in this regard, having a much wider variety of stuns and stun-like effects, some of which also do damage. (What happens to a monster terrorized in the middle of a spell/WS activation? How many HNMs that are immune/highly resistant to Stun are susceptible to SA+Headbutt, Jettatura or both?)

There are two good dispelling jobs in the game already, and one mediocre one; Lunar Roar is pretty reliable, but like all blood pacts the opportunity cost of using it is quite high. I don't see anything wrong with adding BLU to the mediocre dispeller category rather than the great dispeller category, considering its other strengths. I feel more sympathy for COR, which are apparently built to fill a support role but can't dispel at all. Maybe SE should add a dispelling bullet or something.


In addition, any discussion of BLU resists at higher levels should remember to take into account that the BLU in question aren't wearing their +skill AF; I can't speak for BLMs, but I know it makes a huge difference for RDMs. In addition, there is not yet a blue torque, blue magic earring, something equivalent to master caster's bracelets, etc., which may or may not be added in coming months. I wear something over +40 skill (and I think +50 is possible); BLUs currently wear +0.

I think any assessment of BLU as being weak at something 50+ is necessarily premature. (On the other hand, anything they're strong at now, AF can only make them stronger at.)

It *is* more costly for BLU to use staves and rest than it is for other jobs, and that's something that should probably be taken into account in designing BLU AF and other future gear for BLU. But I think we should wait to see what SE does with this issue before jumping on it as a job balance concern. It's very likely that by the standards of a year from now, *every* BLU today has horribly gimp gear, because the things that will be considered indispensable don't exist yet.


But a job that could do damage comparable to other DDs, and also have great stuns, reliable dispel, cures and unique buffs *and* have as high or higher DEF than heavy-armor jobs (with Cocoon) would be insane. There'd be no reason to do anything but BLUburns. BLU was not intended to be an omnipotent god job, and shouldn't become one.

[Murphie]

Re: Blue Mages are being tweaked?

Let's see, how has SE made players unhappy in the past?

• DRG: Pentathrust Nerf
• RNG and NIN: Ranged Nerf
• BST: MPK "fix"
• NIN: Shadow-Hate Nerf

I'm sure there's more, but I know that even though SE tried to placate those affected by changes to jobs, often they come too late for the reputations of the jobs affected. Honestly, I don't think DRG recovered from the changes to pentathrust until just recently, and might never completely. RNG has suffered horribly, since the proce of ammo remains the same, and yet damage has been decreased and more difficult to achieve, making people hesitant to PT with them (not to mention that many noob RNG don't understand that you can't melee and still do decent arrow DMG). NIN can't get the hate it once did from very expensive shurikens; However, with the NIN +enmity gear, they have been placated almost completely for the hate lost when shadows go down. And BST... Ah, the poor BSTs, who lose the ability to dismiss and re-charm for a "fix" to the MPK system that really didn't fix things.

I'm still waiting to see how SE handles the situations they've created with BST and RNG, and hope this drastic sort of thing never happens to BLU. However, looking at thier track record, if enough whiners from the minority complain, they'll nerf the job to high heaven (such as with MPK fix, DRG nerf, RNG nerf). Hopefully, a small change to the early levels will be made and will be enough to silence the nay-sayers.

Pentathrust wasn't nerfed. The nerf was to stop MNKs from spamming Asuran Fists. Sure, DRGs couldn't spam Penta as a result, but that doesn't mean that DRG suddenly sucked. It just meant that the lazy (and often stupid) playerbase couldn't get easily spammed TP out of DRG so they didn't want it anymore. Nevermind the fact that it was one of the highest damaging jobs for a good portion of the game. The only problem with DRG is player perception. The recent two-hour change was a good thing for DRG, but it's not like it made up for three years of ill will from the community at large.

NIN still does perfectly fine with throwing weapons. At least in my experience, and from what I've seen from other NIN. The fact that most NIN don't bother with throwing shurikens of any kind might have something to do with this misunderstanding, but throwing still does just fine at point blank range. The changes (not nerfs) to Utsusemi don't appear to have slowed NIN's invite rate down at all, and NIN and /NIN is more popular than ever.

I will agree that nerfs are not the answer. BLU is just fine. People need to stop looking at a random sample of levels where a job does really well for proof of a job being overpowered. 1-75, people. Please check it.

[Hyrist]

Re: Blue Mages are being tweaked?

Lets stop looking for ways to be angry at SE and look at all the facts shall we?

"DRG: Pentathrust Nerf"

Do you know what else this 'nerfed?' it nerfed Monks using relic weapons and Ausran Fists to spam nonstop in dynamisis and other places. Sure DRGs and other jobs took a hit, but it removed a VERY problematic exploit in the game.

Now? Dragoons do very deicent damage, especially against some of the new creatures in the epansion. Remember they also got a brand new 2hr to help with their output, and their Wylvren timer got reduced to keep them up.

SE has made up for that 'Issue' though it took them a while to do it.

"RNG and NIN: Ranged Nerf"

Rember this phrase? "]RangerFantasy XI: why play any other job?" There was an exploit in the sytem, and players took a huge advantage over it. People were compiaining on how ranger was dominating the damage dealing department. And they were right. Phraser after phraser results showed how Ranger ahniliated other DD clases with damage dealing. I litterally perdicted the 'nerf' on ranger form quite a long distance off. They had it comming.

And what now? Post nerf? Ranger is still one of the most potant DD classes in the game, so it obviously diddn't hurt their position in the party and endgame slot as much. Better yet! SE changed the use of Sharpshot to remove the distance equasion from the diffiulties for certain periods of time. It looks like this 'issue' wasnt as big as it was played out to be right after the change. No where NEAR the impact of the TP adjustment.

"NIN: Shadow-Hate Nerf"

You call this a nerf? It barely effects the gameplay ,or Ninja's positioning in tanking at all. First of, SE never intended on Ninja being a tanking class, that was a players. Ninja steals party positions away from a tankign warrior and a PLD job class, for a pretty lame tanking job on average to begin with.

SE adjusted the shadow/hate issue mainly to help classes like ranger and thf who were subbing shadows LOOSE hate they gain over time when the mob swings at their shadows. It really did a minimum amount of impact to a Ninja's tanking ability. So I say again, you're calling this a nerf? If SE wanted to really nerft Ninjas, they would remove the spell from the list, like they completly removed Regen 2, Raise 2 and the ENTIRE marksmanship skill away from a Red Mage when they gave them refresh.

"BST: MPK "fix""

Everyone comlpains so much that bst got hit hard from that update. But then again, everyone assume it was a 'solo-onry' job class. Which is a load of bull. Yes, Bst soloing got hit hard, infact it got recuded down almost to the level of 'gasp' normal soloing ability! What a consept! After all SE did state that they were trying to make soloing easier for everyone, well if they did that wouldent BST's skills in soloing end up becomming another exploit?

Even with the hit to BST, the MPK ability suffered a serious blow. It is very hard now to MPK someone without making it obviously deliberate, making GM's job a little easier. SE is doing their best to make this enviroment as vindictive free as possible, and with as many asshats as they are in the game, its not easy for them. SE came into the MMO field with a nieve vision of what was to happen, and they got stuck with a facefull of good ol american high school (im)maturity.

SE so far has given a couple minor things to help bide the time with, but for now, BSTs are slightly more common in parties, and the camping areas of the mobs have changed. BSTs actually still rule the majoirty of the soloing relm, though BLU does give BST a run for it's money.

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Of all the new jobs, Blue Mage is the most well thought out. It has a system of checks and balances that prevent exploits, making the beginning levels of the game actually a bit easier to go through, as the main focus of the game has shifted in level. Intersting enough, the class works well independantly of any 'adjustments', as it functions on par with other jobs, be it support, DD, and (to those who want to put the extreem effort into it) tanking.

I do not beleive this class will be adjusted because it works the way its designers intended it. Remember, SE did tell us that this job would not function like any other job in the game, and it stays true to that. Changing it to 'fix' any assumed inbalance would also remove that statement.

[Awilo]

Re: Blue Mages are being tweaked?

Blue mage has enough drawbacks as it is right now, mp pool between mages and pld / drk, below average stats (but can get the stats they want with spell settings), limited # of spells to use at all time with the slots. Cannot use any ranged weapons, any shield (except one the fairie shield I believe). The gears are ok but nothing fantastic, one handed sword are not the most damaging weapons.

Spell wise, I won't deny, we are good against E, T mobs...really good but in party....blue spells get resisted a lot except Bludgeon but this spell get weaker as you progress and you end up relying on much more mp costing spells.

The funny thing about asking to tone down the power of some spells would be like asking SE to tone down the spells of the mobs as well. Did any of you read blue mage history/description? they are members of the immortals (some blue mages were known to be immortals or close to it at least) and with the upcoming AF and limit breaks special for the new jobs that is going to be interesting.

Rdm, Blm and whm are still more efficient than any blue mage in a party... solo wise, rdm are probably on par with Blue mage except rdm have all their spells available all the time, can use shields and nearly never run out of mp while blue mage can get clear mind and auto refresh, clear mind comes relatively early but auto refresh comes quite late in a blue mage career (lvl 52+ around) and its only if you sacrifice 8 points and some spells slot to get it.