Something that bugs me about BLU subjob disussions...

[Krondorn]

Let me start off by saying: I do not believe /NIN is superior to /THF or /WHM. I acknowledge /THF and /WHM as excellent (if not superior) subjobs. However, why is it that so many people look down on BLU/NIN? I never hear anyone complain about THF/NIN, RNG/NIN, or WAR/NIN. People often claim that "/NIN doesn't offer anything/enough." What, exactly, does /NIN offer these jobs that it does not offer to BLU? I really don't want to turn this into a BLU subjob discussion; I've read plenty of those. This is purely a /NIN question.

[Taskmage]

Re: Something that bugs me about BLU subjob disussions...

Well, in the case of thf/nin and rng/nin, they're pullers, and it's commonly accepted to use utsusemi for additional protection when pulling. I don't know if it's still common for rangers to dual wield archers/hawkers knives for extra ranged acc, but it still sounds good on paper. thf/nin also benefits from the extra hit on their weaponskills, since that spike of damage from SATA VB or whatever ws is such an important part of the job, anything to help it is welcomed.

I don't think it's just blu/nin that's being scrutinized like this. Similar conversations have been taking place on the war forum and I think the thf one as well. A lot of people are starting to question whether /nin is really superior in any context.

[Spinnthrift]

Re: Something that bugs me about BLU subjob disussions...

And following up Taskmage...

on gear specifics - the latent stuff from /Nin is worth using on Thf and Rng. It's kinda meh on other jobs.

Personally - when I'm duo'ing Blue Mage, I use Blu/Nin as I'm sharing tanking with the other Blu/Nin - that's just for exp though (when we hunt spells we take other combos). This is because 90% of the time.. the mobs are dead before my three shadows are down, so my partner tanks the next one while I recast... and so on till our MP is gone. However - for exp, or mission roles - then I'd want to look at something more suited to party play and fixing a specific role.

I definately think the questioning of Ninja as a subjob has been long overdue though.. and welcome it myself - even though I use it for some things, there are times when I feel others would be more appropriate.

- Saeriel

p.s. I really have to get a shiny sig someday.

[IgotGAME]

Re: Something that bugs me about BLU subjob disussions...

I currently use RDM as my sub basically for the melee damage increaser, latent affect sword skill, and EN spells. Now that I have BLU half way to 48 and I am beginning to think that maybe I should sub WHM instead. I would only lose melee damge and EN spells, but would gain Cure III quicker and Raise.

I don't know what to do really. Do I stick with /RDM or do I switch over to /WHM? What do you guys think?

[Spinnthrift]

Re: Something that bugs me about BLU subjob disussions...

Depends - do you play with physical damage more or magical damage?

Do you use the latent Emn down items from /Whm?

Do you....?

Lots of questions...

If you give a rough idea of how you ideally set spells and fight.. I'll try and give you pointers on what role you're aiming for.

[IgotGAME]

Re: Something that bugs me about BLU subjob disussions...

Spinn

Now that you bring that up, I realize that I do more sword fighting and melee damage than anything. I use Sole Sushi and have Deft rings and all my Blu spells that give DEX+ set so I can gain TP as fast as possible and not miss with my sword. I usually use spells sparingly (although I use Headbutt more than anything) so that I can remain standing and let my TP build to around 200+ and do my skillchains. I mean after eating sole sushi my STR is +14 and DEX is +29 I think.

I guess I am more geared to /RDM now that I step back and look at it. Is there a site somewhere that shows all the latent equipment for every job?? I know the Rapier's Belt, but I don't know the other latent equipment for RDM or WHM.

[Sarren]

Re: Something that bugs me about BLU subjob disussions...

The main reason I' believe blu/nin is looked down upon is because of the way it's justified by it's users. 1/10 has something sensible to say they rest give responces that are either completely wrong, illogical, display a poor understanding of game mechanics, are half leet speak, ect... The most common reason I've come across is, "I sub nin so I can spam spells and not pay for it".

Similar damage can be done without needing shadows to fall back on if you understand how hate work thus greatly reducing the need for shadows. And, /nin offers little in comparison to say /thf in the offense department or /whm in the support department. The extra damage from SA dwarfs what you recieve from DW.

/nin has it's place and greatly improves your defensive capabilities, but since tanking isn't a blus purpose in a standard party it's lacking as a sub. /rdm, /whm, or /thf offer more overall to the party unless it's setup is specificly designed for you to share tanking duties.

[Feba]

Re: Something that bugs me about BLU subjob disussions...

Alot of people are opposed to /NIN because they feel it's "Cookie Cutterizing" their job. Weither or not you're playing it for that, people WILL see it that way.

For BLU, /NIN doesn't offer enough, as the extra MP or stats from another job+Cocoon will make up for the loss of shadows, since you shouldn't be pulling.

Basically, /NIN offers an additional weapon (for stats, such as offhanding another wand for more INT), and Shadows, and little else.

[Spinnthrift]

Re: Something that bugs me about BLU subjob disussions...

Off the top of my memory...

/Rdm:
Warlock's Mantle: Latent: Enhances Fast Cast
Warlock's Targe: Latent: +7mp +7hp
Warlock's Earring: Latent: hmp +1
Rapier Belt: Latent: +5 Sword Skill

/Whm
Healer's Mantle: Latent: M. Def Bonus
Healer's Shield: Latent: +2 Dex
Healer's Earring: Latent: -1 Emnity
Mace Belt: +5 Club Skill (worthless for Blue Mage imo)

/Thf:
Pilferer's Mantle: Latent: +4 Evasion
Pilferer's Aspis: Latent: +5 Shield Skill
Pilferer's Earring: Latent: +2 Dex
Dagger Belt: Latent: +5 Dagger Skill

/Drg
Wyvern Mantle: Latent: +6 Attack
Wyvern Targe: Latent: +1% Haste
Wyvern Earring: Latent: +5% Haste
Lance Belt: Latent +5 Polearm Skill

Not sure of the rest.

[Mycraell]

Re: Something that bugs me about BLU subjob disussions...

p.s. I really have to get a shiny sig someday.

I can make you one, if you provide the images you want.

[Ziero]

Re: Something that bugs me about BLU subjob disussions...

The reason War subs nin is because with the innate ability to use Voke, double attack, and berserk, Warrior does not lose any of the most usefull Tank/DD abilities in game. Combined with powerful one handed Axe WS mid game and many incredibly strong axes late game, War/nin becomes a very potent DD and Tank. BUT /nin alone does not increase a War's Dmg, and /Drg, /Sam, /Thf and /Drk would all be able to put out more Dmg while /mnk would give war better solo tanking abilities.

Thfs sub nin because thf/nin is an exceptionally strong soloer. With their naturally high evasion, thfs can easily cast Ustu Ichi back to back without taking dmg. Also it used to be that a thf could exploit the old 'tp trick' where they boosted their haste+ gear while dualing low delay Dags to gain TP at amazing speeds. But seeing as the minimum TP has been lowered this trick no longer works. There is also the fact with the fast running mobs, but that's only useful during certain phases of an Exp pt. War, Drk, Drg and Sam would all provide much stronger DD benefits over nin sub, but many thfs feel they need that extra protection.

Rng sub nin because back when they were *the* premeire DD class, they would often pull hate with ease. Subbing nin served three purposes to a Rng, one was giving them the shadows needed to survive the hate they gained, the second was to allow them to sub a weapon with useful stats (dual archers ect) and the third was to actually help lower their Dmg output compared to a Rng/war.

Then there's also the fact people think using two weapons is cool. =/

All in all, /nin is a situational sub at best. With no direct abilities to help DDs other subs prove more functional in pts. But because of the highly powerful Utsuemi spells, and the aesthetics of dual wield, its often picked exclusively over more useful subs. For a job like Blu, utilizing one single sub, especially one with limited benefits, shows lack of effort on the players part. Though I am sure in some situations /nin is the best choice for Blu, most of the time it serves no real use.


Also, kinda off topic but I hate to see things like this happen. To the person who said they were a Blu/rdm who focused on +Dex as a melee. Don't. Eat meat, get ACC gear and increase your Str and att before Dex. As a melee DD the order of importance for stats is Acc>Str/Att>Dex. Once you can reliably hit, you don't need to stack more Acc gear as you can never have 100% acc. But you can increase the Dmg each of your hits will do by increasing your Str/Att. Dex's affect on both Acc and Crit rate are too minimal to notice with the naked eye, but increasing yor Str/Att will show direct results right then and there. Using 'zerk and eating meat made the difference between hitting beetles for 8 Dmg and hitting the same beetle for 38 Dmg at your lvl with my thf.

[DakAttack]

Re: Something that bugs me about BLU subjob disussions...

There's really only three good choices for Blue Mage in terms of sub jobs: Nin, War, and Thf. Each has it's ups and downs so it's really a combination of personal prefrence and what the party needs. Why anybody would sub a mage to Blu is beyond me. I suppose it might be useful for soloing, but that's about it.

[Feba]

Re: Something that bugs me about BLU subjob disussions...

There's really only three good choices for Blue Mage in terms of sub jobs: Nin, War, and Thf. Each has it's ups and downs so it's really a combination of personal prefrence and what the party needs. Why anybody would sub a mage to Blu is beyond me. I suppose it might be useful for soloing, but that's about it.

Maybe you haven't seen all the benefits pointed out to /RDM, especially with latent eq.

[Taskmage]

Re: Something that bugs me about BLU subjob disussions...

-nas, seals, a couple hundred more mp, clear mind, magic attack bonus ... you don't see the benefit of those?

[Spinnthrift]

Re: Something that bugs me about BLU subjob disussions...

-nas, seals, a couple hundred more mp, clear mind, magic attack bonus ... you don't see the benefit of those?

I'll refrain from trying to explain the differences in role between /Drg and /Rdm... he'd fall over. ^^