Unorthodox subs

[Karinya]

Re: Unorthodox subs

BLU/NIN is common because /NIN is trendy, not because people have actually thought about the advantages and disadvantages.

You have a good point about /DRG, though - Jump will give less TP and damage when using a one handed weapon.

I don't think BLU/RDM would work that well though - most of the RDM spells you would want to use are highly dependent on enhancing magic skill, both for effectiveness and for interruption chance. Or enfeebling, but you can probably use blue magic equivalents to all the enfeebles. It's Phalanx and Stoneskin you would really be looking for, and they're going to be weak to worthless for a main job with 0 Enhancing Magic. However, the reverse is not true for RDM/BLU - Cocoon is not skill dependent and with Stoneskin, not even subject to interruption. Protect IV + Cocoon + Phalanx + Stoneskin + Refresh + Cures = Immortality?

Regarding BLU/THF, I've heard that both BLU/THF and THF/BLU can stun HNMs with Sneak Attack+Headbutt. Including ones not stunnable by magic like Kirin. (Behemoths too?) I haven't seen this in actual use yet, but if it's true, that's pretty exciting for certain fights. But BLU/THF can hardly be called an unconventional sub - it's practically the standard (post-30) with the known effectiveness of SATA + physical blue magics.

[Taskmage]

Re: Unorthodox subs

Of the 5ish times I've parties with blue mages outside of Valkurm, one has subbed thf and all the rest have subbed whm or rdm. The blus that subbed a mage job never ever used the spells provided by their subjob. Only blue magic. They seemed to have been using them solely for traits and stat bonuses. I thought about /rdm a little more, and the traits it gives. In a situation where status cures and AoE heals are unnecessary or redundant, /rdm gives Fast Cast and Magic Attack Bonus to boost the efficiency of your blue magic.

[Feba]

Re: Unorthodox subs

most of the RDM spells you would want to use are highly dependent on enhancing magic skill,

Good point. And yes, RDM/BLU is overpowered, try to find the video of avesta soloing Chary as RDM/BLU @_@

[Mycraell]

Re: Unorthodox subs

BLU can get a lot of hate, but with Cocoon, I think a job that gives more melee damage or TP; or a job that gives more MP and matk(or whatever the hell it is you BLUs use)

Which is precisely why i would have thought a combination with SAM would be effective.

[Spinnthrift]

Re: Unorthodox subs

/Rdm is nice because of the Rapier Belt: +5 sword skill, which adds to your physical magic accuracy, as well as Warlock's Mantle and Earring - which provide enhanced fast cast and +1 hmp

In situations where you need a spell effect *that* second, Rdm is unbeatable... in situations when you need to be able to recast a spell quicker than your timers would normally allow, /Drg provides the latent effect if you have the gear.

In terms of regular traits though, /Drg isn't really that special - it's the latent gear that makes it really abusive.

When I get a Moldy Earring - I'll be seeing if it affects physical magic by the standard percents, as it should be fairly easy to test on Thf/Blu*... but as Blue Mage doesn't seem to follow many of the standard Mage rules - I'm not sure what effects what in Blu yet.

- Saeriel

*the only possible problem I see with this is that sometimes I get damage that is abnormally high... and I suspect that physical magic is affected by Double Attack/Triple Attack, so I'll note them down, and otherwise dismiss them as being outside of the standard range.

[Feba]

Re: Unorthodox subs

/Rdm is nice because of the Rapier Belt: +5 sword skill, which adds to your physical magic accuracy, as well as Warlock's Mantle and Earring - which provide enhanced fast cast and +1 hmp

Some more good points on /RDM's side, although isn't the belt +3?



Personally, I don't think /SAM would be that great. Meditate isn't too powerful when subbed, and Store TP is nothing to swoon over, at least not without some help from eq...

RDM and THF seem like the strongest subs for now.

[Taskmage]

Re: Unorthodox subs

I had entirely forgotten about the /rdm latent effect items. Those do seem quite useful to blu. I'm not sure if any of the blu/rdms I partied with used those. I don't usually check people.

[Spinnthrift]

Re: Unorthodox subs

A trend I've noticed is most people don't build combo's around gear. For example - I don't consider /Drg that strong unless using the Wyvern Earring/Mantle - I don't consider /Rdm that strong unless I'm using the belt/earring/mantle (although the mantle is the least impressive - as many of the Blu spells are very very quick anyways), as /Thf gives great damage performance, /War gives consistent melee DoT, /Whm gives status cures and backup heals etc..

Genin Earring is strong in it's own right, by nature of the Thf/Nin or Rng/Nin setup - but for other jobs, it's a fairly moot item (as Agi isn't a big stat to worry about) and Sarashi is in my opinion a kinda meh item. For Blu - the stat ups of Merc Captains is more important.

If you have the Mantle for /Rdm - you're pretty much an ideal bomb/effect stunner if you have a trigger finger. If you have the earring for /Drg - you move closer into more of a mob locking role - just by using Head Butt and those are two ways the performance varies from two subs using latent gear on a single spell. The more combo's you have with spells and little tricks the more complicated it all gets - which I suspect is why people /Nin, as it's relatively simple, and the advantage of Utsusemi is obvious, whereas the other functions become more obtuse in design.

- Saeriel.

[rheya]

Re: Unorthodox subs

Yes, Phalanx and Cocoon stack. And yes, they make for a ridiculously strong RDM/BLU.

I went as 75 RDM / 21 BLU to Ballista last night and tore things up:

http://ffxi.allakhazam.com/db/jobs.h...3;num=3;page=1

[Isondra]

Re: Unorthodox subs

I have received a lot of positive feedback and testing results so far using BLU/DRK. So here's my line of thought...
Common BLU Sub:
/THF - SATA + Screwdriver. That's pretty much a given, tons of damage in one big burst. High DEX to improve physicals, no magical bonuses to speak of.

/NIN - Dual Wield and Utsusemi: Ichi. Seems to me this is primarily effective for soloing, NIN will provide decent physical attributes and Utsusemi will help to pick up the slack where Metallic Body ends, again no magical bonuses to speak of.

/WHM - Supportive cures, -nas, mage stats, mage MP bonus. Seems like a good call for a supporting role. Potentially soloable, however no physical bonuses to speak of.

/WAR - Strong physical attribute and job ability bonuses, minimal tanking bonuses for early levels, no magical bonuses to speak of. Based on what we know so far about physical BLU spells, it seems like WAR is a great choice for a stronger Bludgeon.

Which then brings me to my soloing and grouping thusfar with /DRK.

/DRK - Strong physical attribute and job ability bonuses on par with WAR, however no Double Attack, Provoke or tanking bonuses. Same essential benefits to physical BLU spells, however the DRK also has supporting magical abilities to lend to a greater MP pool and improved magical BLU spells.

[Mycraell]

Re: Unorthodox subs

/DRK - Strong physical attribute and job ability bonuses on par with WAR, however no Double Attack, Provoke or tanking bonuses. Same essential benefits to physical BLU spells, however the DRK also has supporting magical abilities to lend to a greater MP pool and improved magical BLU spells.

This is what i find intriguing. A /drk seems perfect for a DD role.

I was in a party with a SAM the other day, and he was saying how he finds it a very nice sub for jobs that require a lot of TP usage. So, although i don't have much knowledge of the BLU physical spells, and tp related magic yet - i presume it could be useful. Not to mention the fact that, similarl to above, the melee stats should be boosted nicely by SAM.

[Isondra]

Re: Unorthodox subs

This is what i find intriguing. A /drk seems perfect for a DD role.

I was in a party with a SAM the other day, and he was saying how he finds it a very nice sub for jobs that require a lot of TP usage. So, although i don't have much knowledge of the BLU physical spells, and tp related magic yet - i presume it could be useful. Not to mention the fact that, similarl to above, the melee stats should be boosted nicely by SAM.

Although I personally have limited experience with subbing SAM for my BLU, here is what I know so far on the topic...

Standard BLU physical spells do not /seem/ to be affected by your current TP as long as they are not under the effect of Chain Affinity. My data indicates that Screwdriver has the same damage range at 0% as at 300%, but random is random.

So for your average "day-to-day" mob fighting, SAM would lend its physical stats to the fray, but the TP would only benefit skillchaining. However, on that note, the ability to pump up a skillchain means that a BLU can have scary /burst/ damage by doing /more/ SCs, at the loss of a slight magical boost gained from DRK.

So realistically at this point it's really a question of style. Do you prefer spiky "burst" damage or good "constant" damage?

I personally prefer good constant damage, but a BLU/SAM would probably destroy Ballista.