Unorthodox subs

[Mycraell]

I would just like to propose a topic focusing on the more unorthodox sub jobs for a Blue Mage. I do this because A, i am closing in on 30, and can feel the hunger for BLU information rising again.. and B, because, in an ideal world, where there isn't such pressure to join the masses in using 'popular' job combinations, i wouldn't mind combining BLU with a job such as DRK, NIN, SAM, or PLD.

Obviously these aren't the usual bread and butter combinations - bar NIN, which i see quite frequently on my server. And i realise that, compared to others, these may not be as effective. But just because someone may consider them "gimp" jobs, or useless subs, or what have you, doesn't make them any less compelling in my eyes.

I understand that the abilities and, in some cases, magic of certain jobs will be halved when subbed. That being said, i am particularly interested in the passive job traits, and how they can be combined to good effect with a BLU job. For instance, i understand that a /WAR sub can be used to good effect, and that a bonus of this is the added strength that will boost the power of physical BLU spells. Will this not be the case with something such as /DRK, a job famous for DDing? Granted, you won't have provoke, but if you're wanting to deal damage, surely BLU/DRK or BLU/SAM will be more powerful than BLU/WAR?

If anyone has tried such combinations, I look forward to hearing the possible benefits of them, however small they may be.

[Taskmage]

Re: Unorthodox subs

Well, this is what I understand about conventional blu subs:

/whm : Gives access to cures, -nas, and eventually AoE cures that can smooth out a party. Mage sub, so you get more mp and, for what it's worth, better mnd and chr than with other subs.

/rdm : Popular, but as much as I'm a fan of rdm I don't understand why. Still has cures, but loses -nas, and your offensive magic will be all but useless because of the halved skill. Stat boosts are leaned slightly more towards physical than /whm, and you still get a substantial mp boost.

/war : Used for a long time in early levels mainly for Provoke to tank. Generally not appreciated later on a) because people got over the blu tanking idea and b) because their job abilities only enhance your melee attack and do nothing for your magic. Defense Bonus doesn't do much for you in a DD or support role, though I think it's still untested/proven whether Double Attack can proc on physical blu spells.

/nin : Another tanking sub, also used for flash to dual wield, since you're not doing much of use with your left hand otherwise. Unfortunately, dual wield doesn't give you that much either (5% haste) unless you find an offhand weapon with really nice stats. Utusemi outside of tanking is only useful if you get hate, and if you do that a lot maybe you should ration your mp better.

/thf : The de facto sub for turning out huge skillchain closer numbers. I've heard of SA blu magic for 1000+. I think that's pretty much all you get, but that's good enough for most people.

Now for the subs you mentioned:

/drk : Attack Bonus at 20 for +10 attack. Job abilities to enhance your melee attack, but not really as good as /war's. Drk's enfeebling and elemental skill and selection is already pretty weak before cutting them in half. Drain and Aspir may be good enough to use, but again, half skill and you get blue magic that does the same thing. Smaller MP bonus that a mage sub, but still something.

/pld : Defense Bonus and a bunch of defensive skills that probably won't do you much good in a party, especially at sub level. Shield Bash, but you already have Head Butt. Best bonuses are probably Auto Refresh at 70/35 and Flash at 74/37. The former is more easily obtained in other ways and the latter will probably be ineffective due to low skill.

/sam : People were excited about using this at first to build tp faster for spamming WS and CA Blue Magic, but because of the long timers on Meditate and Chain Affinity, it doesn't work out to all that much benefit.

[Icemage]

Re: Unorthodox subs

More unorthodox stuff:

/BST: Standard solo fare against easy prey or weaker enemies. Useful when you just need to mow down stuff to get a specific drop and don't care about XP.

/BRD: Yes, this unusual support sub can work for blue mages too, though beyond level 30 losing Sneak Attack really hurts your damage output if you're going into an offensive mode. Probably only really viable after you get access to Magic Fruit so you can main heal without a healer subjob.

/COR: Might be useful at end-game with some of the rolls, particularly Ninja(+Eva) or Healer (+hMP), if status-removal isn't needed.

/BLM: Probably only useful at end-game, and even that is untested. Might be interesting to force some effects, such as Jettatura's Terror effect on enemies with Elemental Seal.


Icemage

[Rayvlin]

Re: Unorthodox subs

Problem with drk that as a whm i can tell you a bad drk is a mana sink. As for spells blu has a variation of all of these in some form. However i could see uses in that blu has many self healing spells and few party heals so it is a possible avenue to persue if you have people willing to expieriment.

SAM at level 60 is a good possibility. It would let a blu to rest mp a bit more often and only melee just a little bit totally reducing the amount of tp the blu is giving the mob and allowing them to participate in skill chains a bit more.

NIN is good if your pulling or have hate issues. NIN also gives subtle blow which should reduce the amount of tp given through spells but this i don't know about. NIN is also the best solo sub I've seen so far.

Not to sure about pld for a sub. I know there are magics with a defence modifier. Auto refreash is nice and so is flash. But why flash when you get that later(an aoe one from a mob in sky) and you can just stun the mob?

[durecellrabbit]

Re: Unorthodox subs

So far I've tried /drk, /whm and /war. Drk is imo not a very good sub, the only thing it offers as far I can see is a small mana boost and some nice attack increase ja. I don't like it much and went back to /whm. I used /war when the party needs a extra provoke otherwise it offers a few attack and defence ja. I like /whm, it gives me a nice mp boost and offers cures which I feel helpless without if something goes wrong.

I plan on trying /thf and /rdm at 30 and 32. Thf will give me SA to do nice spike damage which some ppl like but other than that I can't see much use for it. Rdm offers cures and enspells although I'm not sure how effective they are with half skill.

Nin is along with whm the most popular subjobs (rdm is popular? I've only ever seen one). Nin has duel wield which I think is the main attraction, our other arm is rather useless. When I'm in a party with other blu they are normally /nin.

I think the melee subjobs might be more useful later on in the game. I've heard, not got that far yet :p, the fight begin to take a lot longer and chaining mobs becomes a lot more common. If this is true and you need to conserve mp, improving your melee might be an idea.

Subjob might varies based on your race at least at my level. I partied with a Galka 7 levels higher than me for healing breeze and I had 50% more mp than him. I could see the extra mp being useful unless you only cast 2-3 spells each fight.

[Spinnthrift]

Re: Unorthodox subs

Ok.. random subs..

/Drg - I know eminent people bash this sub, but - with the wyvern gear - it's so nice. Access to an early Haste, attack up Trait and later on an Accuracy trait make it an interesting and potentially viable sub job choice.

/Brd - great for soloing. Especially if you have an Orphic Egg.

/Drk is nice for increasing your DoT and MP pool.

[Taskmage]

Re: Unorthodox subs

/Drg - I know eminent people bash this sub, but - with the wyvern gear - it's so nice. Access to an early Haste, attack up Trait and later on an Accuracy trait make it an interesting and potentially viable sub job choice.

Don't forget Jump giving you an extra attack once or twice a fight.

[Mycraell]

Re: Unorthodox subs

Yeah, i get the impression that a /DRG could be nice - despite the lack of a pet.


Pardon my ignorance, but how exactly does Meditate work for a SAM? Because, on paper at least, it sounds like it should work well for the TP related spells.

[Karinya]

Re: Unorthodox subs

One more comment on /DRK: From my experience as RDM/DRK, I can definitely say that Souleater + Vorpal Blade is pretty vicious, even for a mage main with no really good DD gear. Souleater + CA Hysteric Barrage (or something like that) + Vorpal Blade, I wouldn't be surprised if you could break 2k. If you don't kill yourself. (And if you don't kill either yourself or the target, chances are very good that you WILL draw hate with this.)

As for /PLD, it seems fairly useless except for solo (where it might or might not be better than NIN depending on what kind of eva you can get relative to what you're fighting, and whether or not you are 74 yet). A weak protect is better than none, but BLU can have auto-refresh without using their sub for it and I doubt they stack. Flash is decent and would probably stick despite the skill issue (it's one of the almost-unresistable spells), but probably isn't enough to choose your sub for, especially in a pt situation.

/DRG is an interesting idea, particularly in the 20s when you can't yet benefit from /THF. It probably has better STR than /RNG, and the free extra attacks from Jump. Leter on its rather bland bonus traits will probably fare poorly in comparison to SATA, Double Attack etc., but who knows.

[ItazuraNhomango]

Re: Unorthodox subs

I don't understand the popularity of BLU/NIN... I never had to compete for enmity with BLU on my PLD in our static party. Right now, our high-altitude nuclear-bomber BLM and our pint-sized powerhouse SAM give me more headaches in that department than the BLU/THF.

Then again, we're only level 34-35. About when should I start to expect trouble? And, shouldn't I just let the mob swing at the BLU? He has Cocoon, after all, and I can cure him if the mob does hit him.

[mikejones]

Re: Unorthodox subs

/pup lol

[Rayvlin]

Re: Unorthodox subs

with /pup you have your own privete cure III if you use right, mp free and infinate :D

[Icemage]

Re: Unorthodox subs

I don't understand the popularity of BLU/NIN... I never had to compete for enmity with BLU on my PLD in our static party. Right now, our high-altitude nuclear-bomber BLM and our pint-sized powerhouse SAM give me more headaches in that department than the BLU/THF.

Then again, we're only level 34-35. About when should I start to expect trouble? And, shouldn't I just let the mob swing at the BLU? He has Cocoon, after all, and I can cure him if the mob does hit him.

Start worrying at level 44 when he gets Mandibular Bite, then worry a bit more at level 60 with Death Scissors and Dimensional Death.


Icemage

[Awilo]

Re: Unorthodox subs

huh I think the sub you take should be in consideration to your race as well...while I know most of you say any race can do any job with a job as versatile as Blue mage, I would say just compliment your race strength to the maximum.

sure /whm would be nice... but as a blue I just don't see myself sitting in the back and doing all the ridiculous healing plus I am an elvaan so I have a low mp pool, so what to do? I went for /war simply because it offers me boost to my attack and hp as an Elvaan I have high str and vit so why gimp myself with /whm knowing that I will never have as much mp as a taru taru. Plus if you follow the chart all the time like Vermin spells are stronger than plantoids and set up your spells correctly you can basically use blue to fight any kind of opponents very easily without switching subs all the time.

/nin...I have seen some blue with /nin frankly... it doesn't look as useful as people want to make you believe...one useless hand? so what at least with /war when the tank loses the agro you can provoke and yeah Blue can tank fair enough until the tank gets back the agro.

Basically the way i see blue have the chart of blue always near to you and switch your spells adn macros around depending on the kind of enemies you are fighting. I am only lvl 10 blue, I don't have a lot of mp yet, I just wanted to try it for fun. In la theine, the sapling are even match or dc, I can kill a sapling by spamming power attack (vermin) > sapling (plantoid) even with my low mp I don't even use half of the mp to kill the creature ( I didnt even pull my sword just wanted to try).

[Feba]

Re: Unorthodox subs

Kinda odd to see all the hate for /NIN, when it's the most common sub i've seen, but when you think about it, it is mostly pointless. Unless you're pulling or subtanking, /NIN isn't that great.


BLU can get a lot of hate, but with Cocoon, I think a job that gives more melee damage or TP; or a job that gives more MP and matk(or whatever the hell it is you BLUs use)

Anyway, the before mentioned idea of BLU/DRG is interesting, especially if you can afford a Wyvern Earring. Although, i've mostly seen /DRG used to help with twohanded weapon TP, I would like to see how well it works when applied to a one handed weapon.

BLU/THF seems to be a great option, What with SA+Blu Magic. I haven't really studied or played BLU myself, but from what i've seen, BLU/THF is a very promising combo.


BLU/RDM could be fun soloing later, if things like Phlanx and Cocoon stack..