Requesting advice: How to function within a low level exp party

[cidbahamut]

I am not a career Black Mage, but rather a Red Mage trying to do his best while leveling up a Black Mage for sub job purposes.

During the last few exp parties I joined as Black Mage I felt I was not pulling my weight and I would appreciate some basic theory on what a Black Mage does to be most productive while in a low level exp party.

My last outing to Qufim left me feeling as though I was simply playing the job in a lazy fashion. Most of the time I would end up using my two biggest nukes (Thunder and Blizzard), usually getting two nukes off during the course of the battle before once again taking a break to /heal up again.

Coming at this from a Red Mage's perpsective, I felt I was doing something wrong by casting just two spells(and maybe an enfeeble) and sitting down for mp the rest of the fight. I'm used to being on my feet, constantly slinging spells all over the place, so when I encounter extended periods of downtime it feels like I should be doing something else to help the party, but I don't know what. I have an itchy trigger finger when it comes to spells I guess.

I also ended up ripping hate off the ninja tank a few times, so I clearly need to learn how to toe the hate line. Any advice on that or will it simply come with time and more experience?

My interim solution was to try dropping down to some lower level nukes to see if I could get away with casting less damaging spells with a little more frequency in an attempt to avoid stealing hate via spike damage. Is that a workable solution or is there another approach that would work better?

Any advice you good folks can provide would be very much appreciated.
BLM isn't my main so I won't be pouring all of my gil into it, but I would like to at least have a solid understanding of how it functions so I can try to make up for less than ideal gear with a good playstyle that fits the job.

[TheGrandMom]

Re: Requesting advice: How to function within a low level exp party

First, do not nuke when the fight just begins. You know this already but just covering all the bases. Let the tank build up a little bit of hate before you go hog wild. Now during this time you should be resting but if you are full then you could do one or two enfeebles if you do not have a rdm. Coordinate with other mages, like whm, just in case they are casting dia, etc. But remember, if you are enfeebling, you are getting hate so its likely you'll pull hate when you do nuke. Personally I would wait for the tank to build hate, toss a cure/enfeeble if I didn't need to heal, and try to finish the mob with a nuke. Then there is no pulling hate so you don't need healing/to die and the mobs dead so everyone is happy. I also would watch the tanks hp and if they were in trouble and needed the diversion, I'd nuke to pull hate (a tactic I did more for nin's so they could get shadows up). Otherwise the enfeeble/cure, light nuke, grab a tick of mp, another nuke, and mob is dead tactic is about the way it goes. Blms always rest, rdms never get to rest in later levels. I would always get antsy on my blm because I thought people were thinking I was slacking. On my rdm, I was much more at home.

[cidbahamut]

Re: Requesting advice: How to function within a low level exp party

I guess I was underestimating how much hate some of those early enfeebles created because a lot of the time when I went for the kill nuke, I ended up drawing hate if the mob resisted or had any hp left.

Good to know that BLM spends most of its time /healing. I just felt so guilty about not casting more spells, but if a couple of heavy nukes and then grabbing some mp is the standard then I guess I don't have to feel so bad about it.

[Karinya]

Re: Requesting advice: How to function within a low level exp party

BLM has a very different rhythm than RDM - it felt wrong to me too at first. But you have to realize that in those few seconds of nukes, you do more damage than a same-level melee swinging at the mob for 30 seconds or more. And resting is doing something useful for the party - it's restoring your MP, which allows you to cast more spells later.

Don't feel obligated to join the fight as soon as it starts. It's bad for hate control and a single long rest gives more MP than two short ones, so if you're already resting and not full MP when the next mob arrives, stay sitting for a while longer while melees and the tank build up some hate. You'll still do plenty of damage when you do join in. (Assuming that there isn't some emergency like an add you need to sleep, or something.)

The only point of damage that it really *matters* whether you do it now or later is the last one. For melees, the longer they are engaged the more damage they do (and TP they gain) from regular swings, so it pays for them to jump in right away, but for BLM, the main things that determine how much damage you can do are MP and hate. Hate will get better as the fight goes on and you can get more MP by sitting.

Damage over time spells like Poison, Bio, and the Shock family do benefit from starting early, like melees; they're also low hate and MP efficient (relative to their damage). So if you're going to do anything early in a fight, those are a good choice (depending on how hard a mob it is and your current MP, you may benefit more from continuing a rest). Nukes are better done at the end.

Keep in mind the importance of resistances. A smaller spell that the mob doesn't resist will do more damage than a bigger one that is resisted - for less MP.

Oh, one more thing - you have a subjob. After the fight, if you have plenty of MP and the healer is low, do some curing with your subjob. You don't want to cast too many cures *during* a fight because you'll gain hate and not be able to nuke as much, but after a fight you can't gain hate so you can use your MP while the healer starts to rest. Over time this can improve the endurance of your party quite a bit, and if you spend more time resting at the start of the next battle, that improves your hate situation. Status curing is low hate and doesn't even cost much MP, but if there are AoE status effects it can help the healer restore everyone faster than if they had to do it all themselves. Later on you also get some protective buffs you might want to use if you expect to be at risk of pulling hate.

(Note that in a manaburn and some other specific situations, all this goes out the window and you want to take advantage of BLM's ability to do as much damage as possible as fast as possible. But in a regular party that will get you killed.)

[Coinspinner]

Re: Requesting advice: How to function within a low level exp party

What they said.

If you feel out of step with the party, that's normal. Black Mages march to their own drums.

[Armando]

Re: Requesting advice: How to function within a low level exp party

Also remember that Drain does damage even if you don't recover HP - in fact, its hate is proportional to HP recovered so it's practically hateless if your HP is full.

I'm also a big fan of the RDM BLM WHM backline in the pre-refresh levels. The RDM can take care of what he does best - enfeebling. This leaves each job free to focus on what they each do best, and lets them recover MP better - won't have the BLM or WHM interruption a /heal session just to reapply a debuff.

Oh yeah. Most people fail to realize that Distortion isn't the only option. Lv.1 skillchains are perfectly fine (50% of the closing WSs damage instead of 60%.) It's better to get a Lv.1 SC with strong WS than a weak Lv.2 SC or no SC at all.

As for hate, it's pretty much proportional to your damage. Obviously you run a higher risk of crossing the hate line with a big nuke than a smaller one. But it's not in your best interest to do a constant stream of small nukes since it's not MP-efficient. You'll just have to learn how to gauge the tank's hate and your own. Do bear in mind though that Bind and Blind generate a fair amount of hate. Nothing to worry about on the long term, but it's generally unsafe to damage the mob at the beginning of the fight if you've just Blinded it.

[cidbahamut]

Re: Requesting advice: How to function within a low level exp party

I'm convinced getting people to give me a skillchain to burst off of would require an act of God.

[Armando]

Re: Requesting advice: How to function within a low level exp party

Sometimes. Other times people are so apathetic/sheeplike that they'll do whatever you tell them to do without complaints if it'll get them EXP. It's always worth a try.

[hexx]

Re: Requesting advice: How to function within a low level exp party

Everyone here has given you great advice, props to TGM and Armando (if you listen to anyone here, them two are it). As far as your role is concerned, BLMs are called "nukers" for a reason. Think of yourself as the airstrike that gets called in to lay waste to your enemies (almost along the lines of a SMN even). Takes some time for the airstrike to get there, but once it does, it lays waste to the enemy LOL. Of course, your initial nukes aint as grand, but as Karinya put it, your damage per nuke is higher than what any melee can pull off at your level.

[Neverslip]

Re: Requesting advice: How to function within a low level exp party

I kinda came across this in the melee realm...

I am sooooo used to Dancer and macro'n like a crazy demon... when I finally got into a party (61 bird party) with my Sam/War... I was struggling with how lazy it felt. Then I realized I was still attempting to do more than any other DD in the party. I basically just had to chill out. Calm myself, if you will. I realized I was playing "hate potato" too much and needed to hold back a little. Yeah... I could get that Hasso'd and Berserk'd WS off after that Sekkonoki and skillchain off myself... but that would kill me and make the party wait (or boot my butt). I did do that sometimes when it was appropriate but I had to follow alot of what others have already said. Let the tank establish the hate... get that 3rd Eye up... and Glass Cannon's AWAY!!!

I'm convinced getting people to give me a skillchain to burst off of would require an act of God.

I skillchains. It's difficult for me to understand how such a cool aspect of the combat system gets entirely overlooked or misunderstood. I remember my LS did a Kazham party a few months ago and we made it a game to try and WS in different ways than we were use to. "Get that lil Whm over here... I want to skill off the wand. WAIT! It's better if they end it... WTFomg... these are so awesome." And they're purdy too (^.^)d

[Ynot]

Re: Requesting advice: How to function within a low level exp party

you can also use blind in the begining... it helps the meelee guys cause the mob will not hit... after the tank build hate alittle you nuke give it a few sec before you nuke again...
you are doing your BLM job by nukeing a few times per fight and also haveing MP for the next fight...

I sub WHM so when im not nuking i watch the other players HP to help out if needed...

Skillchains i find hard to get also unless im with my real party... take alot on commuication i think but fun when you can get them

[Zoltar]

Re: Requesting advice: How to function within a low level exp party

Personally I would drop a couple spells like bio and paralyze, drop a cure to help the whm then drop a nuke or two. If you start out nuking you'll die fast. Just work a DoT and and spell like blind/paralyze and the occasional Thunder/Blizzard. Oh yea, Aeroga hits hard like Thunder too^^

[Armando]

Re: Requesting advice: How to function within a low level exp party

If the BLM will be using enfeebles (likely the case if there's only 2 true mages), it's best for someone else to do Blind, because it has twice the enmity that Paralyze, Slow, and Silence have. Bio is a no-no* because Dia is better. Poison is convenient to leave to the BLM because it's pretty low priority, meaning that if you're hurting for MP and need to keep on resting during the start of the fight, the party won't suffer for it, as opposed to Paralyze which is pretty critical to have on ASAP. Before Dia II comes around, Dia I is also pretty convenient to leave to the BLM because its hate is based on damage, so it's pretty much 0.

Also again I can't stress the awesomeness of hateless Drains enough.

EDIT: Oh yeah. The two elemental enfeebles that arguably help the party the most are Burn and Choke. Burn lowers the target's INT, which means you do more damage per nuke, and if the mob has a magic-based TP attack it'll do less damage to the party (unless it's HP-based like Incinerate.) Choke drops the target's VIT, which is like raising the DMG on the weapon of each party member by 1-2 depending on how low level the party is. Reducing other stats won't have effects as favorable as those two.

*If your Dark Magic Skill has fallen far behind it's OK to Bio when the mob is almost dead, or when the party has Dia II at its disposal, for skill. But you should mainly rely on Drain and Aspir for skill-ups when possible.

[Yellow Mage]

Re: Requesting advice: How to function within a low level exp party

Also Shock. RDMs will like you for that. Lower MND helps land Enfeebles on both sides of the Magic divide. And you might as well stack it with Burn and Choke, anyway.

[Armando]

Re: Requesting advice: How to function within a low level exp party

I don't know. It's not that it technically wouldn't help, but in my opinion the actual improvement would be questionable compared to Burn. Even the most thorough Paralyze analysis I've seen couldn't really pin well how much MND was helping its accuracy.