Black Mages coming back?

[odjnlinus]

Re: Black Mages coming back?

Do you mean Player skill is worst because they are soloing or because people say they have no skill because they are soloing?

As for SE making it easy for soloers but adding in new to things to help solo efficently, is that so wrong. Sometimes Soloing is the only thing left to do besides do campaign or Beseiged to get exp than waiting for hours to get a pt invite with a job that no party wants, or starting a party then having people leave because X job is in the party when it's useless.

I myself as a DRG solo a lot because I'm outshined by SAMs, *hah look at the drg seeking, poor bastard life must be hard, oh well not my problem invite that beautiful SAM over there he's better*.

Maybe SE is actually paying attention to the problems that go on in FFXI with the whole party thing, since their tweaking FFXIV to be more solo oriented.

[Takelli]

Re: Black Mages coming back?

But just because merit parties are held as the accepted standard doesn't mean people aren't doing other things. There are people getting their merits through other means. Else you wouldn't have all those same Seekers who are sitting on their hands claiming they're having trouble finding a healer because none are lfg. People want their precious 6 person parties to be the one true way to get EXP. That's the only way they can feel entitled to saying player skill is worse than before because of those damn soloers taking advantage of all the new goodies SE has been introducing. And that's why people who get EXP through other means seem so invisible.

And that's why there's this whole "moral panic" about SE making it too easy for soloers...

I am not against soloers, and I hate when people say soloers suck. Most peopel solo because they don't want to fall in the current way things are. As soloing as Rdm/Nin, I try to avoid falling into the crowd, and following everyone else. FFXI has made it easier to solo for people who cant get a party/casuale. But as Whm for when I do want to party, I have to follow the group araound, and do as they say, just so I can hit 37, then I can do what ever I want with RDM.

But with the other ways of gaining Merrits/Exp is longer/harder to do. Campaign, Besiged, are the other two prime ways of gainineg exp for higher levels as well. They need other ways for solowers to gain exp as well, besides FoV. FoV is nice. Sure, Regen, Refresh, RR, and extra money/exp. Sure, I'll take it. But after a bit, that does get boring. I play as a Rdm doing FoV in Buburumi Penensula. Its decent exp, not nearly as fast as a party, not as boring as parties as well, but then I join up with a Blm, and the exp starts to roll in faster than a party.

People fall in with the "popular" crowd, and don't want to try new areas. Hell, I will go with two other as my Rdm/nin, and be main healer, and deal damage, and gain good Exp/hour. Blms started to do this, Mana Burn. Sure, its great EXP for them as well, and they can use FoV to increase their exp/hour as well. But, when combined with a melee job, the exp can roll in evern faster for the BLMs...

I'm starting to ramble... Im gonna stop lol

---------- Post added at 01:45 PM ---------- Previous post was at 01:40 PM ----------

Do you mean Player skill is worst because they are soloing or because people say they have no skill because they are soloing?

As for SE making it easy for soloers but adding in new to things to help solo efficently, is that so wrong. Sometimes Soloing is the only thing left to do besides do campaign or Beseiged to get exp than waiting for hours to get a pt invite with a job that no party wants, or starting a party then having people leave because X job is in the party when it's useless.

I myself as a DRG solo a lot because I'm outshined by SAMs, *hah look at the drg seeking, poor bastard life must be hard, oh well not my problem invite that beautiful SAM over there he's better*.

Maybe SE is actually paying attention to the problems that go on in FFXI with the whole party thing, since their tweaking FFXIV to be more solo oriented.

Player skill is not reduced by soling IMO. In fact it takes more skill to solo. A WHM solo is hard, and I've done it. It takes more skill to make sure the mob is completly enfeebles, you are healed, and you are doing your max damage against the mob. Same with Rdm. Drgs have their healing breath to keep them alive, and they have to know when to use it and such.

Se NEEDS more soloable content, and lower lvl besiged/campaign type stuff.

I make my party depending on teh mobs we are fighting. I'l take a Drg over a Sam ANY day if we are fighting piercing weak monsters. If I am fighting slashing, Sam. Fighting Magic weak, mage, and so on. Drgs are great depending on where they are, and how they fight, so are Sams. Drg, and Sams are cousins IMO, and are both great depending on where they are ans what you are fighting.

When FFXIV does come out, I hope the game isn't completly solable, but not so that you need a group for EVERY mission like GW. AND FOR THE LOVE OF GOD, NO HENCHMEN OR HEROES! -.-; (Look up GW wiki if you don't know what I mean, and sorry for the double post.)

(Nvm... I like how this forums handles double posts )

[Ketaru]

Re: Black Mages coming back?

Do you mean Player skill is worst because they are soloing or because people say they have no skill because they are soloing?

As for SE making it easy for soloers but adding in new to things to help solo efficently, is that so wrong

No, it's not wrong. But soloers in the game are so invisible because people sweep those other ways to get EXP under the rug with blanket statements like, "SE shouldn't have added FoV. They're making it too easy to solo". You don't even have to solo FoV. Like someone on another forum says, "Misery loves company. You should have to play the way I did and suffer the way I did for as long as I did."

The suffering has just shifted with these new events they added. I don't have to deal with gimps, or party ditchers, or princess prima donnas, or share my loot, or even seek! In return, I have to accept my EXP will be slower. I would argue it still shouldn't be quite as slow as it is. But then, somebody polled Partiers vs Soloers, and apparently in this day and age of FFXI, soloers actually don't number far behind partiers.

Yes, it's not fair that some jobs don't have as much of a choice. But the fact that nukers, like my SCH, can easily solo mobs that check in the VT range opens up options for me that others don't have. For example, I farm Luminion Chips for Virtue Stones on SCH, and get a fairly respectable amount of EXP while doing so. Can you imagine somebody whose only job is WAR needing Virtue Stones for his sea Great Axe?

Parties don't really teach you anything you can't learn with a few bouts of trial and error at 75. Refreshing and Hasting a party...right...like that is as much skill as it is how many cups of coffee I've had during the day...The only real problem I encounter is that these other avenues really are not necessarily "solo" content". You can join other pepole for it. But in general, even if they do it, people don't seek for them. You can't /sea all 75 inv and check search comments to see who wants to duo FoV with you. And if you tried to ask somebody, they'd probably tell you to leave them alone. On the other hand, people who do consciously want to FoV or Campaign with others are the type that wouldn't seek in the first place. The only way you really find people who compromise between the two is asking within your LS usually.

[Susurrus]

Re: Black Mages coming back?

Because people do go to other places. Far better than to put your Seek up in Whitegate and sit on your hands...

The "problem" (if you want to think of it as a problem) is that SE added mobs that were inherently designed to melee burned. They repop every 5 minutes. They have low HP and even lower DEF. They have fairly innocent TP moves. It's easy to put put this up as the standard by which every job is meant to meet because, not only is the closest thing to a sham imitation 6 person party, but it easily yields the best EXP/hour in the game. If it could be done with 3 people rather than 6, they would be just as contraversial as Astral Burn parties.

It really is quite funny people have their underpants all in a knot about SMNs "Astral Burning" things to death, pointing judgmental fingers about how they should level the right way just like everybody else, but those same people would never think to invite a SMN to their own party. Even worse, misusing the word "exploit" when it actually is perfectly in line with the intended mechanics of the game, even if it's just as cheap as DRKs Kraken Clubbing things to death. It's cheap yeah, but it works as intended.

BLM is in a similar position as PLD at high levels. "Oh yeah, I expect you to have perfect EXP buffer before you come to events. But you won't get it in my merits parties! Ku ku~"

But just because merit parties are held as the accepted standard doesn't mean people aren't doing other things. There are people getting their merits through other means. Else you wouldn't have all those same Seekers who are sitting on their hands claiming they're having trouble finding a healer because none are lfg. People want their precious 6 person parties to be the one true way to get EXP. That's the only way they can feel entitled to saying player skill is worse than before because of those damn soloers taking advantage of all the new goodies SE has been introducing. And that's why people who get EXP through other means seem so invisible.

And that's why there's this whole "moral panic" about SE making it too easy for soloers...

So uh, anywhere for Astral Burn at 75? I've tried around and been pretty unsuccessful. The main problem being MP runs out waaay too fast and there's too much downtime.

[Elwynn]

Re: Black Mages coming back?

So uh, anywhere for Astral Burn at 75? I've tried around and been pretty unsuccessful. The main problem being MP runs out waaay too fast and there's too much downtime.

That's why they use sync mules.

(*grumble*grumble*andthendelevelthemcausingtheareatofalltothebeastmen*grumble*grumble* - pardon me, I'm still lolling inside about what this in Buburimu did to the price of Yagudo Drink on Fairy)

[ItazuraNhomango]

Re: Black Mages coming back?

(*grumble*grumble*andthendelevelthemcausingtheareatofalltothebeastmen*grumble*grumble* - pardon me, I'm still lolling inside about what this in Buburimu did to the price of Yagudo Drink on Fairy)

If people keep doing that, someone with cooking skill will figure out how to use Gardening to give themselves the Buburimu Grape supply needed. Actually, someone probably did already; quick check on FFXIAH.com says 54 bottles on AH for Fairy.

[Losrase]

Re: Black Mages coming back?

if they are not going to fix blm party wise atleast do something about elemental weaknesses and ressistance. It feels like, no all I do is cast thunder or blizzard. a well geared blm with merits gains nothing from weaknesses.

I been thinking for awhile now is a Skill Chain should reduce the mob's elemental resistance of the Skill Chain type for the time window of the MB or enchance the elemental accuracy of the Skill Chain type for the casters who are within the window of the MB.

The greater tier Skill Chain used will have a greater effect. This will help as mob elemental resistance increases, the effect of the either the elmental resistance reduction or plus elemental accuracy will increase to compensate.

[Malacite]

Re: Black Mages coming back?

You shouldn't have to level a different job just so you can earn merit points at a reasonable rate for use on your main job though, that's just retarded. Unfortunately that's how the game operates right now.

Manaburns are nice, but TP burns are way more efficient and Mount Z is almost always overcrowded by soloing BLMs all competing for mobs and refusing to party up... (at least that's the situation on Seraph. our server for some reason tends to have the highest % of soloists or so I've been told)

[Mog]

Re: Black Mages coming back?

You shouldn't have to level a different job just so you can earn merit points at a reasonable rate for use on your main job though, that's just retarded. Unfortunately that's how the game operates right now.

Manaburns are nice, but TP burns are way more efficient and Mount Z is almost always overcrowded by soloing BLMs all competing for mobs and refusing to party up... (at least that's the situation on Seraph. our server for some reason tends to have the highest % of soloists or so I've been told)

If it's iceday and I'm bored, I'll solo/duo on puddings regardless of how many people are out there. Can't tell you how many /tells I get asking to join a party...

[ItazuraNhomango]

Re: Black Mages coming back?

You shouldn't have to level a different job just so you can earn merit points at a reasonable rate for use on your main job though, that's just retarded.

A bit of tangent, but do people consider as "reasonable rate"?

Is it an absolute value? There was a time when the best a normal, working merit party could get was the Decorative Weapon (roaming) camp for 12k exp/hour (or so? This was with BRD.). Now, a non-optimal setup with a hard working puller can get 15k exp/hr at Greater Colibri camp. 18k exp/hr with a Bard puller is fairly easy. BRD+COR go over 20k exp/hr as a norm. I've read claims of 30k+ exp/hr (forgot if it was Colibri+Wivre or Mamool Ja) for some parties.

Which exp/hour value would be the "reasonable rate"? The Zilart/CoP era of 12k exp/hr? The mythical 30k+ exp/hour by supremely well geared LS party from the endgame scene? Or some other value? And, why?

Or, it is a sliding target--once you reach a certain threshold as a percentage of the best possible exp/hour, it's good enough--the gap between manaburn and WS spame becomes no longer "retarded"? What percentage would that be? 50%? 75%? 90%?!

[Reverent Knight]

Re: Black Mages coming back?

Id be happy with the 12k per hour at the minute but with the state of pickup parties at the minute I dont see that happening. I got more xp per hour in campaign than I did in the last 3 parties ive been "meriting" in.

[odjnlinus]

Re: Black Mages coming back?

Question: Although White Mage is the optimal job to level black mage with since it adds more MP, is there another job to sub with black mage to either solo or duo because I'm not touching WHM anymore, I just can't do it, even to 37, the pain and heartache is too much to bear for my destructive heart.

I just want to have a 75 BLM so I can merit the II versions of AM, and destroy mobs in the wake of my destructive power . Not to mention finding a party whether it be a regular party or manaburn party is still like finding a spot of black ink on concrete at night.

Actually I might just do RDM since I can be deal damage and cast spells. BLM/RDM wouldn't seem too bad right?

I'm a DD, so magic really isn't in my department unless it refers to the mage jobs I use for DRG

[TheGrandMom]

Re: Black Mages coming back?

You can use whatever subjob you like, its your choice. Now if you are talking about what subjobs the majority accept as the right subjob then your choices are limited. Whm and Rdm are the 2 most common, though rdm isn't that great imo. Whm sub is by far more helpful. People usually sub rdm for the fast cast trait and you don't get fast cast 2 until you are in your are near 70 or in your 70's. If you are going to try to get into an endgame shell you better bite the bullet and just level you whm to 37. Seriously if you can't be strong enough to level whm to 37, <insert scathing comment here>.

[Firewind]

Re: Black Mages coming back?

You shouldn't have to level a different job just so you can earn merit points at a reasonable rate for use on your main job though, that's just retarded. Unfortunately that's how the game operates right now.

Which is one reason why I started levelling COR. Well I genuinely like the job a lot but I was mostly looking for merit jobs that I enjoy playing when picking COR as my next 75. The only "merits" I get on WHM are usually sympathy invites from friends and LS members and nine times out of ten the "merit party" I was invited to was some sync in Lolibri for 5k/hour because the idiot party leader still wants to fight Lesser Colibri at 58-60.

On the other hand I'm levelling PLD and BLM because I enjoy the jobs. No other reason. Invite rates and the fact that everyone and thier mother has RDM and BRD levelled means that PLD is definitely going to hit 75 before COR but meh I like both jobs so it doesn't bother me much.

[odjnlinus]

Re: Black Mages coming back?

If you are going to try to get into an endgame shell you better bite the bullet and just level you whm to 37. Seriously if you can't be strong enough to level whm to 37, <insert scathing comment here>.

ouch

Lucky for me Endgame is not within acceptable time measures in my line of work, so I won't have to worry about pleasing someone else.