Laevateinn is Garbage

[Sabaron]

Re: Laevateinn is Garbage

Accuracy +30 and Double Attack mean that if you're using Laevateinn (and meleeing) that you can probably build TP. The ability to build TP enables you to use the Mythic Weaponskill Vidohunir which procs the aftermath effect which even further increases your accuracy and attack--above that of an elemental staff.

Therefore... The Laevateinn not only enables BLM Staff melee, it practically requires it as a prerequisite because, if you're not meleeing, then you might as well just whip out the Elemental staves.

[Armando]

Re: Laevateinn is Garbage

The bit about Occasionally Attacks Twice is part of the Aftermath and at least with another weapon it required 300 TP. And you're not going to melee some HNM.

The key issue here is that the non-Aftermath part should be useful to some appreciable degree (like Burtgang's) , as opposed to a ~10% damage boost to one nuke every 10 minutes IF you're using Elemental Seal for nukes. That "enhancement" just fails hard.

EDIT: Also notice that Nirvana (SMN) gives more -Perp Cost than HQ staves. They could've used the same logic of "well, it's not better than the staves but it's almost as good, lets you melee better and has inventory -7" but they didn't. They made it better.

[Vyuru]

Re: Laevateinn is Garbage

Anyone who would prefer to spend millions upon millions to do less damage but save 3-4 inven space has their priorities mixed up.

I think it depends. If I can do 3800 nukes with HQ staffs, but only 3500 nukes with the mythic, but save 7 inventory slots, that may be worth it to me.

It's all a matter of moderation to me.

Though you do bring up a good point about needing certain staffs anyways.

[Omgwtfbbqkitten]

Re: Laevateinn is Garbage

The bit about Occasionally Attacks Twice is part of the Aftermath and at least with another weapon it required 300 TP. And you're not going to melee some HNM.

There's lots of stuff we earn at endgame that we don't use for HNMs. How players fight HNMs has no barring on the intended design of a weapon. This is clearly a melee weapon for BLMs, otherwise there wouldn't be such tremendous melee stats given to it.

The key issue here is that the non-Aftermath part should be useful to some appreciable degree (like Burtgang's) , as opposed to a ~10% damage boost to one nuke every 10 minutes IF you're using Elemental Seal for nukes. That "enhancement" just fails hard.

Key issue for you, maybe, the chourus Q_Qing right now seems to be more upset that its not better than Elemental Staves.

EDIT: Also notice that Nirvana (SMN) gives more -Perp Cost than HQ staves. They could've used the same logic of "well, it's not better than the staves but it's almost as good, lets you melee better and has inventory -7" but they didn't. They made it better.

They made it better because SMNs had room to get something better. BLM doesn't really need anything better than what they have now. BLM has had luxurious gear to obtain for years, SMN can't exactly say the same.

No matter the endgame event, someone always gets the short end. This time it was BLM and SCH - its the price you pay for having it really good to start with.

[Mog]

Re: Laevateinn is Garbage

I guess it's good if you're farming, but lol if I ever melee any NM worth fighting.

[Icemage]

Re: Laevateinn is Garbage

I guess it's good if you're farming, but lol if I ever melee any NM worth fighting.

...and the corollary to this is that, if you had the funds to get this in the first place, why would you need to farm?

Square-Enix has no idea what they're doing with mage weaponry, and that's the sad truth. Elemental staves were a terrible idea from day 1, and they have consistently refused to address that problem.

Now, if there were some sort of penalty for swapping weapons on the fly other than losing TP, THAT would make this worth using over gearswapping elemental staves, but S-E can't seem to wrap their head around the idea.


Icemage

[Taskmage]

Re: Laevateinn is Garbage

Rewards for in-game activities should as much as possible be proportional to the effort involved to obtain them and consistent across jobs. This isn't just egalitarian philosophy, it's good design. If two players participate in the same activity and one gets a game-changingly powerful item while the other gets little more than an ornament, the latter player is likely to feel like they've gotten the shaft. Generally it is bad business to make your customers feel like they're getting the shaft. There are obviously practical limitations to this since the power level of different items with different uses for different classes is very difficult, though I would say not impossible, to compare, but when you see such glaring disparities as the one we're discussing one gets the impression that the developers aren't even trying to design well, or if they are they're just very bad at their jobs. /cue Kailea challenging me to do better.

[Omgwtfbbqkitten]

Re: Laevateinn is Garbage

Square-Enix has no idea what they're doing with mage weaponry, and that's the sad truth. Elemental staves were a terrible idea from day 1, and they have consistently refused to address that problem.

I do not comprehend.

Seeing how nice Elemental Staves are, I can't see the problem that needs addressing with them.

[Armando]

Re: Laevateinn is Garbage

I do not comprehend.

Seeing how nice Elemental Staves are, I can't see the problem that needs addressing with them.

The problem with them is that 1) you need a lot of them, 2) there's nothing better, and 3) there is too big a disparity between them and the next best thing (or not having a caster weapon at all in the case of a meleeing RDM) even at 75.

The logical thing would've been to have kept making progressively better staves 'til 75, not to jam 8 Lv.51 staves that are always going to be the best thing to use for casting.

If melees didn't lose TP from weapon swapping it'd be the equivalent of introducing a pair of Lv.51 weapons that all melee have access to that are always going to be the best thing they can use for DoT or WS.

[Omgwtfbbqkitten]

Re: Laevateinn is Garbage

The logical thing would've been to have kept making progressively better staves 'til 75, not to jam 8 Lv.51 staves that are always going to be the best thing to use for casting.

You do recall that the dramatic increase in resist rates happens to fall around the levels you obtain the staves, right? Change it to something more progressive and you fuck over every mage from 50+ or have to dumb down every mob from 50+ to compensate.

You don't want the former or the latter happening, either.

[Armando]

Re: Laevateinn is Garbage

You do recall that the dramatic increase in resist rates happens to fall around the levels you obtain the staves, right? Change it to something more progressive and you fuck over every mage from 50+ or have to dumb down every mob from 50+ to compensate.

You don't want the former or the latter happening, either.

Reducing the resistance on the mobs does no harm if the staves are gone. You would end up in the same position - the specific degree of resistance that the current mobs offer with elemental staves - but you wouldn't need to have 8 staves that are every caster's crutch from 51 to 75.

[Omgwtfbbqkitten]

Re: Laevateinn is Garbage

Reducing the resistance on the mobs does no harm if the staves are gone. You would end up in the same position - the specific degree of resistance that the current mobs offer with elemental staves - but you wouldn't need to have 8 staves that are every caster's crutch from 51 to 75.

So what about things like Leaping Boots, O Kote, Empress Pin and Peacock Charm?

By the logic presented in this thread - everything should scale properly from 1 to 75. These items would have to be rescaled, too, would they not? These items are too good for their level.

We'd have to put Eurytos Bow and Cross-Counters at higher level, too. Probably put Moldavite in the 60s, Scorpion at 65. Rescale those CoP rings to start at 50.

Any objections?

Do you realize how stupid all that sounds?

Its a little late to go back and rewind the clock on elemental staves. There would be more complaints about such an adjustment than there would be praises.

[Armando]

Re: Laevateinn is Garbage

Do you realize how stupid all that sounds?

Doesn't sound any stupider than there not being ANYTHING better than a set of Lv.51 staves. The difference between the kote, the lolboots, the hairpin and the staves is that you're not gimped for not having the kote, the boots, or the hairpin, and eventually they become obsolete. They also don't hog up 8 inventory slots, don't beat your mythic weapon at being useful and they're not useable by every job in the game.

None of the items you mentioned let you outparse the next guy by over 15%. PCC doesn't even come close and it's one of the most coveted DD items in the game.

Of course it's probably too late to fix anything now, but you asked what was wrong, not if it could be fixed.

[ShepardG]

Re: Laevateinn is Garbage

They should just Nerf the Elemental Staff's
10% for HQ
8% for NQ

And then give WW some other synth to tide them over. Or just fix Bolt maker.

[LyonheartLakshmi]

Re: Laevateinn is Garbage

Rewards for in-game activities should as much as possible be proportional to the effort involved to obtain them and consistent across jobs. This isn't just egalitarian philosophy, it's good design.

This is precisely why I think relic and mythic weapons are fundamentally flawed. Many posters are saying it's a tragedy that a mythic weapon doesn't surpass everything else in the game. But what's really tragic is that anything in this game requires as much time and work to obtain as relic and mythic weapons in the first place. To properly compensate for the time and effort required to obtain them, relic and mythic weapons would have to be terribly broken and unbalanced.