15% of damage, 18% of curing...?!

[ItazuraNhomango]

Recently, I joined an LS static party on my Black Mage after a long absence from the job. Prior to that, the job was leveled exclusively in pickup groups (PUG's).

BLM Lv.10-30 was done "noob" style, with random nuking. >_>; (I didn't know better than "more INT is good".) After a very long break from BLM, though, Lv.30 to 40 was continued with much more attention to damage, mob weakness, weather, day of the week, and with inventory packed full of lot's and lot's of melon juice--all with a parser running.

In the last five or sixe levels to Lv.40, I was always the top or second to top DD in the parties, and have gotten used thinking of my Black Mage as a "top tier" damage dealer. ("Blink" also became one of my favorite spell on BLM during that time. <_<; ) I also had the good fortune of always landing in an SC party--or at least in a group of people I can turn into an SC party.

Now, back to the static party: in the last session, I did about 15% of the damage overall, and 18% of the curing. This is very far away from the MNK's 27% damage.

PLD/WAR, MNK/WAR, THF/NIN, RNG/NIN, RDM/WHM, and BLM/WHM is the party setup, and we were doing mostly Funnel Bats in Garlaige Citadel. The real question I have boils down to this: Am I leeching?

Doesn't feel like I'm doing enough damage (or curing) to justify my spot in the party. =/

Granted, every single members of the party is far above your average PUG players, and DD-wise both the THF and the MNK definitely have top notch gears while I'm probably just average or slightly above. (Seer's set, with +1 head and one other piece? The standard INT+ ammo, earrings, black neckerchief, INT+3 rings. Also have a fair amount of MP gear for swapping. Food wise, it's currently Buche au Chocolat, which I share with the RDM.)

What can I do to earn my keep better? (Note that I don't mind curing--leveling RDM to 67 and WHM to 44 have drilled that into me; I already apply party buffs like Baraera, Protectra, and Shellra on a regular basis.)

A) Cure more, and nuke less? Melee's and Ranger are much better than me at doing damage--let them do their things, and I concentrate helping the RDM/WHM keep up healing instead. Somehow, this seems to go against the grain of the job... (But, if that's what I have to do to be more useful, I'd do it in a heartbeat.)

B) Nuke more, and cure less? Shortening battles means PLD takes less of a beating. To do this, though, I need to recovery more MP--that means spend longer consecutive amount of time /heal on, and being less available to help out the RDM. Probably this also means switching to maximum hMP+ food, such as Imperial Coffee +1 or Wizard Cookie.

C) Make each nuke count more? In previous session, I had a 2.60 dmg/MP ratio in Crawler's Nest, with no SC to MB with. This last session, with RNG and THF set up a Distortion for me in Garlaige Citadel, it went down to 2.31dmg/MP on mixed bats and beetles. >_<

C1) Somehow make 1.2 million Gil happen, and acquire the (Lv.35) Elemental Earring? More INT is probably possible (gil not withstanding), but I doubt they would make as much of a difference as less resists on nukes. There doesn't seem to be other options to lessen resist from gear setup, unless I'm missing something. I honestly do not think I can make that much gil before hitting 50, though. T_T

C2) Ask the THF or RNG to cast elemental Ninjutsu for me? While Doton: Ichi will help me land Aeroga on bats better by lowering elemental resistence, is it really worth their time to cast it periodically? THF contributed 25% of the total damage last session, and RNG did 24%. Would it be too selfish of me to request that and other Ninjutsu?


I'm willing to entertain other thoughts and suggestions as well; I'd really like to contribute more to this great party that gives my BLM such a precious opportunity to level with zero seek time. >_<; Help me out?

[Murphie]

Re: 15% of damage, 18% of curing...?!

The 30s-40s are kind of a bad patch for BLM. It does get better the closer you get to 50 though.

I'm not a mathematics whiz, and I don't care to play FFXI that way anyway. I figure if we kill the mob, and do it pretty quickly then we're good to go. But I understand that other people enjoy quantifying exactly how fast it died and to what.

That said, I think it really depends on your static. If they need you to cure more, then cure more. If they need you to nuke more, then nuke more.

The bottom line (and the question you asked first) is that no, you're not leeching. You're just in a bit of a bad patch there. If you targeted different mobs, you might see a real change in the ratios.

[Necropolis]

Re: 15% of damage, 18% of curing...?!

Well for me on BLM I like seeing the big numbers. Naturally I would go with the more nuking. You have a couple options available to get more damage from your spells.

I assume that you are using Burn to lower the mobs Int to get more damage?

Now, a radical idea that a 75 blm friend in my LS suggested I try blm/nin. This however stops you from helping the rdm at all with cures, but might be do able with a pld tank. Benifits here are:

1. Dual wield int wands, you'd be amazed at what the extra Int does for your nukes.
2. Elemental Ninjitsu that is MP free. You can cast your own enfeebles for your next spell and get damage out of it. And the times that I've tried this I did more damage with the elemental wheel than my nin does. (I'm a taru so I have a natually higher int as well as MP pool)
3. Utsusemi - Better than blink because it guarentees the next three hits are damage free, and that should be more than enough time for a PLD to get the hate back.

So your major Con here is the inability to help out the rdm/whm at all in this scenario. But I've seen this same blm in merit parties against Greater Colibri not take any damage from reflect spells. You can always open with AM and cast stun right after, worst case scenario is your tank gets stunned for a few seconds.

So I would try that out for a short exp session and see what you can make of it and see if you could make it work in your party setup. It's certainly not for "PUGs" but with a group of friends you might be able to make it work. But that is a lot of strain on a rdm/whm as main healer. But with a BLM higher int you could help with the enfeebles (I forgot what level you would get them as a sub, and about to go to work). Ninjitsu para/slow/blind could be comparable to the rdm's provided you'll be able to make them stick.

Give it a try, or tell me your thoughts on the idea.

[Murphie]

Re: 15% of damage, 18% of curing...?!

Keep in mind Itazura is talking about the mid to late-40s here. Ancient Magic is a ways off.^^

Still, if the party could stand it, that's one way to boost INT by quite a bit.

[ItazuraNhomango]

Re: 15% of damage, 18% of curing...?!

Actually, I was using Tier II spells. ^_^; Tier I spells are for Wingrats around Lv.32 to 35, while Funnel Bats are for Lv.45 to 49ish, using Tier II singles or Tier I -ga's.

Black Mage leveled from 45 to 47 last session. v^_^;

[Murphie]

Re: 15% of damage, 18% of curing...?!

Ah, ok. Then I need to correct my last post. I thought you were talking about Garlaige levels only. :3 I should have realized Siege Bats aren't the same as Funnel Bats.

[Necropolis]

Re: 15% of damage, 18% of curing...?!

Yea, I'm not sure the /nin is all that great in 40s-50s, but worth a shot. I havn't leveled my BLM in a while, hoping to catch a few friends to level it with one day and try out the blm/nin more.

I know that once you get to 50 and have freeze that timing a MB with that can put out over 1000 damage and kill the crabs in Kuftal from 35%ish life. (I've only had one party where that happend, hume blm/whm)

Timing the MB on freeze can be tricky, but once you have it down you can set up the macro to tell your party members when to start the skillchain (I want to say at 60% casting for some reason, may be off though).

If blm/nin doesn't work for your set-up now, you could try it down the road. It's a valid option that I've seen used (albiet sparsly) to great effect. But I wouldn't try it if your main-healing rdm isn't ready for the full brunt of the curing. I know while leveling whm I've been able to handle 50+ parties as the only support class, and a rdm with near limitless MP could possibly do it, but may gimp effectiviness somewhere.

Another option to help the rdm, that I thought of and is most probably ignorant is a mnk/whm for the mnd+ Chi Blast. This is mostly used for endgame activities where you are kiting mobs around, but he could get a few boost between battles and help with cures. But I'm thinking that it's not going to work with the amount of hate he'll be drawing as a mnk already. And /whm will only gimp his damage and make him a sub-standard back up healer. So ignore that idea unless you wanna experiment, curious to see if it would boost chi blast at all at that level.

(since we are on the same server, I'm more than willing to bring out my whm to a party post-50 to hand out some R3s for the sake of experiment)

[ItazuraNhomango]

Re: 15% of damage, 18% of curing...?!

I assume that you are using Burn to lower the mobs Int to get more damage?

When I can; with MNK on first voke, the THF and RNG are under high pressure to bust out Distortion ASAP. I've missed a few opportunity to cast Burn (or even MB, though much rarer) from curing/regen'ing the MNK.

Now, a radical idea that a 75 blm friend in my LS suggested I try blm/nin.

Yes, I've considered this. From Lv.30 to 40, I've been out DD'ed by exactly one BLM: a JP Tarutaru BLM/NIN. I was very impressed--and rode on his coattail; I cast same spells he did after his Ninjutsu.

The problem with that idea is that there are only two mages in my static, and we both need /WHM. Anything else may be unsafe.

1. Dual wield int wands, you'd be amazed at what the extra Int does for your nukes.

To be honest, I think that's a nice-to-have but minimal benefit. With reasonable gears, resist is a bigger problem than base damage--or, put it another way, a BLM loses out on more damage from resist than lack of INT dominance compared to mobs.

2. Elemental Ninjitsu that is MP free. You can cast your own enfeebles for your next spell and get damage out of it. And the times that I've tried this I did more damage with the elemental wheel than my nin does. (I'm a taru so I have a natually higher int as well as MP pool)

NIN does quite a bit better with Ni level wheel, especially with MAB from /BLM or /RDM. The resist down effect does wear off rather quickly, so it leads to chain nuking right after the elemental Ninjutsu, which leads to Utsusemi's usefulness and a monster running around... ^_^; In my static though, moving the monster around isn't really an issue--the THF gives the PLD enough enmity for MNK to WS before first provoke.

And, while Ninjutsu is MP free, it's not time free. It means a significantly smaller MP pool (for this Mithra), with 4sec time sliced off between every two spells or so (Tier II single + Tier I -ga of same element), which would cut in to /heal on time, eventually. Time is MP for Black Mages, unfortunately.

So your major Con here is the inability to help out the rdm/whm at all in this scenario. But I've seen this same blm in merit parties against Greater Colibri not take any damage from reflect spells.

I want to try this. Probably don't need to cure too much when fighting Greater Colibri if I can actually do very significant damage once a minute.

On second thought, though, the static's RDM will be taxed to the limit with Haste and Refresh then, so I don't think I should abandon healing even on those critters. Oh well.

(Of course, I'd be just as happy never meeting another Greater Colibri again... Boring as heck critter for my RDM; ended up melee'ing them to keep from falling asleep during party.)

[Murphie]

Re: 15% of damage, 18% of curing...?!

(Of course, I'd be just as happy never meeting another Greater Colibri again... Boring as heck critter for my RDM; ended up melee'ing them to keep from falling asleep during party.)

Considering where my comment like this in that other thread got me, this kind of makes me giggle, but I totally have your back here. You have to do something. :3

[Necropolis]

Re: 15% of damage, 18% of curing...?!

Well if you want to try out the scenario post-50, I'm game to come out and watch the fun and cover your butts when things go sour. And as a last ditch effort cast some R3s :3

Has potential, but not sure if your party setup could work with it. Would be better to have another support role (either whm, brd/whm or something of the like). But just send me a tell if your static is in the mode of experiementing, until then I'll ponder other solutions to your more immediate concerns.

[ItazuraNhomango]

Re: 15% of damage, 18% of curing...?!

Thanks for the offer, Necropolis. ^_^

With everyone on time crunch, I doubt other members would be in much mood for experimenting. As is, the party has done pretty well on the whole at zero death from Lv.40 to 47, with a single close call which I managed to Escape'd us from. (I just wish I can do more for them.)

I'm afraid any alteration I make has to be small, and preferably with the ability to revert instantly if it's not working out to be better. Sometimes, success is the biggest hurdle to innovation. ^_^;

[Neomage]

Re: 15% of damage, 18% of curing...?!

Are you leaching? NO.

SE has greatly modified a BLM's role in a party with FFXI compared to alot of other FF games. A BLM is more of a multirole job these days, and your statistics reflect that. It may look bad with the Monk heavily out damaging you, but you have to take some figures into account:

Monk is purely a DD job. They don't even have the option to cure if thats needed in a DD party. Sure, they can Chakara, but that only helps themselves. Because of this, you have to take into account several things:

1) Where you casting Elemental Enfeebles?(Choke, Rasp, Frost, etc) If you where, you where probably improving the Monk's damage. So you could probably think about that as an extra 1-2% of damage your contributing to all the melees(if your using the ones beneficial to melee). If your not, start using them, and look at my sticky on the top of the forum to see you to use them efficently.

2) Where you still preforming a Skillchain still? Even in Mainland areas, TP burns are still effective, and as a result, if you are not SCing, the melee DD's potential goes up while yours goes down.

3) You are not geared for optimum DD potential. I assume your subbing WHM. This is the job that offers the leats potential to a BLM as a subjob(for damage dealing, most for support). Following this comes RDM, SMN, and finally NIN. Don't fret because of this, imagine how much the melee's damage and downtime would suffer if you weren't there. In FFXI you need to be a team, and support your party, not only yourself. It's these team-based parties that still get 30k+ EXP/hour in Caedarva Meripo Parties, and the ones concerned with their own OMGWTFBBQDAMGERAMPAGE that are getting 10k/hour.

[Karinya]

Re: 15% of damage, 18% of curing...?!

A few points:

1. The parser is underrating your damage. Poison, bio, and elemental enfeeble (choke, etc.) damage doesn't appear in the log and isn't counted by parsers. In addition, Choke and Frost indirectly raise the other party members' damage, but a parser will credit the increased damage to them, not to you. Parsers can be useful, but they have their limits.

2. Bats are very squishy mobs and in addition they're weak to piercing, which two of your DDs are. You would probably get very different results on crawlers or beetles (let alone crabs). Or the gobs outside Ifrit's Cauldron - what the heck is a static doing in an overcamped hellhole like Garlaige anyway? Go burst waterga2 on some gobs and see what that does to your damage.

3. Your damage will improve noticeably in a few levels when you can use elemental staves. Partly for the damage increase, partly for the extra MP from Dark Staff, but also because of their effect on resists. You'll also get +skill AF, which will impact resists a lot; and then, too, skill levels increase fast in the 50s. Melees in the late 40s are also underskilled compared to their targets, but they can make it up to some extent with gear and food; mages can't, so they just get resisted a lot until they get the higher skill and +skill AF of the 50s.

4. You can also provide Sleep and Escape, and you have elemental seal to back up that sleep, which a RDM/WHM doesn't. Hopefully you only need these once or twice a night, or even less; but when you do, they make quite a bit of difference.

5. Most other DDs can't provide even 1% of the curing; most other curers are going to be hard pressed to reach 5% of the damage. If the party needs more curing than the RDM alone can provide (which they often do), they don't really have a lot of other options for that slot. A WHM would do nowhere near your damage; a BRD might (indirectly), or a SMN, but those are two of the rarest jobs in the game. A BLM who will actually help with some heals when needed is rare and valuable. I can pretty much guarantee your RDM doesn't want to see you replaced with another RNG or whatever.

[Celeal]

Re: 15% of damage, 18% of curing...?!

That 18% of curing makes you a great BLM ^o^!. I had partied with countless of BLM that their /WHM and White Magic is just for show (never cast any of them on other members).

[Vyuru]

Re: 15% of damage, 18% of curing...?!

Note, I am not a high level blm but I staticed with one who did alot of experimenting in our static of: pld, thf, war, drg, blm, whm

He found that +elemental skill > int for one, so as Karinya said, once you get your AF your damage will increase greatly. Staffs of course help with curing/regaining mp, but since you've got alot of other magely jobs I'm sure you knew that already

However he found that having the appropriate elemental staff paired with an elemental spell was better than using the staff that had +elemental skill on it (Ice staff maybe? I forget) So you'd want to use a wind staff with wind magic and so on. So you will probably want to get most of the elemental staffs to pimp out your blm.

And as others have said, you're kinda in a bit of a slump right now, once you change the mobs you fight you'll see your damage go way up. I see it happen alot in parties actually, if we are fighitng a piercing weak mob then I will outdamage the warriors, not counting my wyvern, who'd normally outdamage me, not counting my wyvern.

Be very careful when using Freeze, if it does not kill the mob instantly you will have one pissed off mob that almost no amount of JA/WS will be able to turn short of Two Hours, or if your thf has SATA up and the rng has Barrage up they might be able to kill the mob before it kills you. Although if the thf is SCing he'd have used SATA.... So yeah, salvation rests on the shoulders of the rng then, unless Chi Blast is any good, never saw a monk use it in a party though.

If you want I can ask our blm how he did his AM macros for SC, basically we told him when we were ready to SC and his macro went something like:

/p Casting (insert AM here) get ready to skillchain! <callX>
/ma "insert AM here" <t>
/wait5
/p START THE SKILLCHAIN NOW

He liked to have full caps at that part in case of battle spam or whatever, just so that it was unusual, and stood out more making it easier to spot.


EDIT:

Forgot to add, just because you are doing 15% of the damage and 18% of the curing doesn't make you a bad blm. I'd point out that it sounds like you are the one casting Regen on the party, and do parsers take that into consideration?

You're doing what you need to do for the party, which makes you a good blm no matter what.