BLM Subjob Question

[Marakii]

So I leveled to 18 over weekend and soon will be starting the subjob quest.

I was originally thinking WHM subjob which I am still leaning towards. However, although I lose healing spells and Blink, whats the downside to going with Summoner as subjob?

If I am not mistaken, you get great MP boost, and with the summon spells, increased damage output. Seems you would be a killing machine.

Is that viable? Are there any downsides to this I am overlooking? Keep in mind, I am brand new to this game

Double Post Edited:
Oh, and the teleport spells I would lose, which is not only convenient, but a good money maker I hear.

[Simatumma]

Re: BLM Subjob Question

So I leveled to 18 over weekend and soon will be starting the subjob quest.

I was originally thinking WHM subjob which I am still leaning towards. However, although I lose healing spells and Blink, whats the downside to going with Summoner as subjob?

If I am not mistaken, you get great MP boost, and with the summon spells, increased damage output. Seems you would be a killing machine.

Is that viable? Are there any downsides to this I am overlooking? Keep in mind, I am brand new to this game

Double Post Edited:
Oh, and the teleport spells I would lose, which is not only convenient, but a good money maker I hear.

SMN is great because of increased INT bigger mana pool and auto-refresh, the down sides are: 1. sometimes you might need to toss a heal or two when the main healer is out of mana. 2. blink and stoneskin, to me can't be replaced. and 3. you lose the teleports and raise which you can only get with a WHM sub.

Also pulling your summons out as a BLM wouldn't be a good idea unless it's maybe for one of their buffs which would make me assume you want all the summons and unless you are 60-70+ then they are going to be VERY expensive to get, and there is also the problem of how are you going to lvl to 30 to unlock SMN if you don't have a sub?

Personally I hate WHM as alot of people do, so I went with RDM as my sub which has it's advantages too... Lower mana pool (as a taru i don't worry) but more INT, Fast Cast (great for MB timing and getting that emergency heal off), and some fun spells that WHM doesn't get ^^

[Mog]

Re: BLM Subjob Question

SMN is great because of increased INT bigger mana pool and auto-refresh, the down sides are: 1. sometimes you might need to toss a heal or two when the main healer is out of mana. 2. blink and stoneskin, to me can't be replaced. and 3. you lose the teleports and raise which you can only get with a WHM sub.^^

God no. Never level blm with smn sub. Just don't do it. Besides the increased mp pool, it does absolutely nothing that complements your main job. Moreover, mp SHOULD NOT be an issue if you're in a decent party. You're better off subbing RDM for intelligence or whm for a little more mp and more curative spells.

P.S.

Use the search function. This has been discussed a bajillion times and these /whm vs /rdm threads always go in circles.

[Marakii]

Re: BLM Subjob Question

God no. Never level blm with smn sub. Just don't do it. Besides the increased mp pool, it does absolutely nothing that complements your main job. Moreover, mp SHOULD NOT be an issue if you're in a decent party. You're better off subbing RDM for intelligence or whm for a little more mp and more curative spells.

P.S.

Use the search function. This has been discussed a bajillion times and these /whm vs /rdm threads always go in circles.

Appreciate both replies (although this was to discuss SUM, not RDM vs. WHM as you stated). Figured some people would have new thoughts on SUM subjob.

But both of your responses madeit easier forme to stick with orginal plan and sub WHM. THanks guys for replying!

[Sabaron]

Re: BLM Subjob Question

I've used SMN sub for White Mage. WHM nukes are lackluster and only useful for bursting (which I never do as WHM anyway unless there's a nice Fusion Skillchain running. With Black Mage, there's just too much lost for the gains in MP. I rarely run out of mp because I don't actually stand up to attack until at least 15 seconds after the first Provoke and sometimes just after second provoke depending on party configuration.

Having WHM sub allows you to -na people, backup cure and let the WHM rest. Taking the pressure off the WHM's mana pool is a good thing, because the WHM needs to be at a certain level to chain monsters. The longer you can keep the WHM in a good mana range, the better. BLM can easily rest for a couple of ticks during a fight, whereas a WHM gets interrupted due to curing more frequently when they try to do so.

RDM sub for Fast Cast/Int
WHM sub for better Cures

These are the only two I've ever seen used, and the only two I'd recommend. Optimally, as a mage, you'll be levelling all three basic mage classes for maximum versatility.

If you're having mana problems I recommend trying the following:

Search the forums for the term: Pineapple Juice, I've gone into some detail regarding it in several places.

Instead of using Rolanberry Pie (unless you're galka/elvaan), try an apple or melon pie +1--it increases your +MPh which is more important than having a high top end. Generally, you won't ever have a full mana bar as a mage in an XP party if you're chaining quickly anyway, so what's the point of boosting it so high?

Get a Pilgrim's Wand from Nunyenunc in West Sarutabaruta, +2MPh. This wand will be a staple in your inventory until you get your Dark/Pluto's Staff at 51st and it's usable as early as 10th level--well worth the NM camping imo.


[EDIT: Strike, corrected by information below]
A little tip for skilling up Dark: An astral ring or any item that increases your mp while decreasing your hp can be swapped in and out to give you a hit-point buffer to cast Drain with--it's not much, but anything is better than throwing Bio and p/o'ing the RDM/other PT members when you overwrite Dia or wasting mp for 0 damage.
[EDIT: End Strike]

[Drain apparently simply does not display it's damage when you cast it; it only displays the amount of hp gained from the attack, see posts by Icemage/Mog].

I would still say don't throw Bio. Bio decreases the damage the monster puts out whereas Dia increases the damage your melees put out. There are only very rare circumstances under which Bio is better. One is if you're working in a malformed party (for some unknown insane reason) and you have a meat tank (e.g. Galka Monk), severely uncontrolled hate, or an underarmored tank that keeps taking massive hits. Chances are that under these circumstances, Bio won't save you, but it might help. A Bio overwrites a Dia of the same tier. Overwriting Dia's effect makes the fight take longer. I've never been in a party that preferred Bio to Dia and every time I ask a mage why he's casting it the answer is invariably:

"I'm trying to skill-up Dark"

Skill up Dark with Drain/Aspir... not Bio.

[neighbortaru]

Re: BLM Subjob Question

after a certain point, more MP is pointless. MP recovery becomes more and more important as you try to complete the higher XP chains.

futhermore /smn over /rdm is just 1 INT more, big freaking whopee-doo.

what you loose out on is the increased flexibility of having the /whm or /rdm spells and abilities available.

/smn might have it's place in certain instances (mana-burn comes to mind) but for 90% of the time, it's just no.

[Icemage]

Re: BLM Subjob Question

As mentioned above, /SMN is just not a good sub. The extra MP isn't materially useful, and losing the other support spells from /WHM or /RDM really hurts in an XP party setting.

---

One thing to correct is that you do NOT need to be damaged to successfully cast Drain. The Drain spell always deals its damage regardless of whether you have damage yourself or not; in fact, from an XP standpoint, it's safer to cast Drain when you're full instead of when you're hurt, since you accumulate less enmity that way (you just get the enmity from damage, as opposed to the damage PLUS the healing effect).


Icemage

[Mog]

Re: BLM Subjob Question

One thing to correct is that you do NOT need to be damaged to successfully cast Drain. The Drain spell always deals its damage regardless of whether you have damage yourself or not; in fact, from an XP standpoint, it's safer to cast Drain when you're full instead of when you're hurt, since you accumulate less enmity that way (you just get the enmity from damage, as opposed to the damage PLUS the healing effect).


Icemage

And to add something, the amount you see on the chat screen does not reflect the amount drained from the mob. If you were at full health and you see "Vysey casts Drain for 0 points of damage", this does not mean that it was hit for 0 points.

[Sabaron]

Re: BLM Subjob Question

I see. Does it not display the damage? The message I get is something like "0 hp drained from xxx. Corrected in post.

[Mog]

Re: BLM Subjob Question

I see. Does it not display the damage? The message I get is something like "0 hp drained from xxx. Corrected in post.

No. It only displays the amount you get from the mob. More than often, the amount you hit the enemy for is greater than the amount you receive.

[Icemage]

Re: BLM Subjob Question

Walk outside a starting town and cast Drain on a level 0 enemy like a Tiny Mandragora while at full HP. It will still fall over dead.

The display in the chat window only shows the amount of HP healed by Drain (which is why the default text color is that light blue healing text instead of the normal red damage text). It doesn't indicate the amount of damage you dealt unless you happened to have more damage than it managed to heal.


Icemage

[Marakii]

Re: BLM Subjob Question

Awesome info guys.

Think Ill lvl and Sub WHM to start, then lvl RDM or THF to be able to swap out among them depending on farming, XPing, and etc.

[Simatumma]

Re: BLM Subjob Question

God no. Never level blm with smn sub. Just don't do it. Besides the increased mp pool, it does absolutely nothing that complements your main job. Moreover, mp SHOULD NOT be an issue if you're in a decent party. You're better off subbing RDM for intelligence or whm for a little more mp and more curative spells.

P.S.

Use the search function. This has been discussed a bajillion times and these /whm vs /rdm threads always go in circles.

I wasn't saying it was a good idea at all i was saying that it does have some pluses but they mean nothing compared to a /whm or /rdm sub. Also pointing out that if he plans to use the summons as a BLM/SMN they will 1 be gimp and 2 be a complete waste of mana besides the occational buff while you're bored and others are AFK.

Edit: a quick question of my own is when fighting something like crabs that spam shell on themselves then how do you handle it when the RDM or BRD doesn't dispel it? I've been yelled at for refusing to waste my mana on a shelled mob and was just curious if i'm too hard headed or if i really shouldn't be wasting my mana.

[FFVIIMidgar]

Re: BLM Subjob Question

I should weigh out my options more carefully. I got useful info from you guys.

[Marakii]

Re: BLM Subjob Question

BLM currently at lvl 18. If I lvl WHM to 20, then switch main back to BLM and set WHM as sub, that would make WHM lvl 9. So I would be at BLM lvl 18 and WHM down to 9. In effect, I would be losing those additional 11 lvls? Or as I lvl BLM, will I gain those levels back along the way without switching back to WHM main?

They told me to stick with WHM now to 20, But if I am using BLM as main in long run and switch back to BLM I would lose lvls 10-20. Doesnt make sense to me.

What I was going to do:

I was going to lvl WHM to 9, set it as subjob, take BLM lvl 18 to lvl 30, switch main to whm and get to lvl 15, then switch back to BLM with WHM sub. At this point I would be BLM 30 and WHM 15. Rinse and repeat every 10 lvls (so I can lvl sub another 5 lvls every time)

So which way is correct? I just dont understand why I would lvl WHM past BLM when ultimately I am using BLM as main job and will lose those lvls on WHM when I switch back to BLM.

Im so confused.... lol