spells not having very much effect

[neighbortaru]

Re: spells not having very much effect

it was tested Gyfford, that's where Vanadiel Monster gets their stats from.

[Gyfford]

Re: spells not having very much effect

it was tested Gyfford, that's where Vanadiel Monster gets their stats from.

{Where?} It's tested that water on water mobs sucks, so they're water based. I've seen nothing about strenghts. Please point it out, and WFT is the shameless behaviour crap. Man there are karmah hoes all over I guess (I thought that was only alla.)

I swear people can't ask questions w/o getting rated down. Grow up.

[Icemage]

Re: spells not having very much effect

Those are some nice sites. The one I could read says this in the key: ◎：Ok ○：Weakness □：Resistant △：10%↓ ▲：25%↓ ×：50%↓ XX：75%↓ ？：Unknown ☆：, but I did not see any mob that had 10%, 25%, etc.

Some enemies (particularly NMs) have those oddball resistances, but most of the normal monsters go by the standard amounts.

I'll hit B. tree by Ramuth zone tonight, there are a few shells in the tunnel and easy zone spot. Everything I've seen ever, has mentioned what the mob is based on, do don't cast those spells on it. I've seen great examples when using demonic pugs vs warlocks. He cast flood on my fish for a whooping 50 damage.

Unfortunatly, I don't recall if he ever fire IV or w/e on it.

It just so happens that elemental resistances "usually" dovetail to elements that the monsters are dominant in, but it's by no means a hard and fast rule. Black mages in particular need to be intimately familiar with the resistances of their targets in order to avoid wasting MP.

Mandragora are a good example of this. They're weak to five different elements (fire, ice, wind, thunder, and darkness), which makes them extremely vulnerable to black mages.

Avatars would be another example yes? No thunder on Titan? No water on ramuth? etc. It just seems to me that no one tested if fire on a water mob is just Neutral... or if it'll get resisted a bit more.

Avatars are the most elementally aligned creatures in the game, so correct, lightning effects of all types (Thunder, Shock, Stun) will not work against Titan, nor will Earth effects. This is abusable in a number of situations (for instance, CoP 4-1 against Ouryu, you can have 2-3 summoners fight Ouryu with Garuda - they'll take minimal damage from most of Ouryu's special attacks since he uses mostly Earth attacks).

So far ffxi as been pretty constant with the elemental everything.
-In crafting, you craft with the current day xtal, you're more likely to HQ or not crit. break your synth. If you synth on the day the xtal is weak to, you got a much better shot at breaking the synth.

-Our bar- spells are the element that the bar- spell is strong vs.

-Our staffs: Fire staff gives Ice resistance, etc.

-Our spells hit harder when using them on the elemental day (Fire on Fireday)

-Avatars are much harder on their elemental day, then on a off day, and weaker (Yes.. no test on weaker, just an observation) on the day they're weak to.

I'm just saying why chance the OP question. Sure when you get thunder, you really don't need to worry about this so much. I however will not cast fire on a aqua mob, I exploit their weakness (as everyone else does).

You should always exploit elemental weaknesses when they're available - the trick is to remember what enemies are weak to. The elemental tendencies are a good reminder in most cases, but they're not consistent, and you should never assume that particular enemies follow similar patterns simply because of their alignment.

For instance, Lamia type enemies in ToAU are strongly associated with water - most of their attacks are water-based, and they're very resistant to water magic. However, they're not actually weak to any element, so Thunder magic isn't any more potent against them than any other type, aside from base damage.


Icemage

[neighbortaru]

Re: spells not having very much effect

{Where?} It's tested that water on water mobs sucks, so they're water based. I've seen nothing about strenghts.

are you looking at this one (same as vanadiel monsters, but in english)? http://www015.upp.so-net.ne.jp/reaver/monster.html
notice how some of the mobs have 'x' on the Element affinity coloumn? there's your 50% resistance "strength."

Please point it out, and WFT is the shameless behaviour crap. Man there are karmah hoes all over I guess (I thought that was only alla.)

I swear people can't ask questions w/o getting rated down. Grow up.

erm, nothing to do with me dude. besides, rep amounts to nothing here but being easier to steal gil from

[Corthaemus]

Re: spells not having very much effect

Murz: At level 16 you get the spell Shock. You will learn to love this spell, as well as Burn(obtained at level 24). These two spells will help immensely with your resists, and damage capacity. Also, be sure to keep your elemental skill capped.

[neighbortaru]

Re: spells not having very much effect

Shock won't have anything to do with your elemental resists, it's MND-.

Burn, however, will help.

[Gyfford]

Re: spells not having very much effect

Either it's my internet explorer, or I'm just dumb. I can't see anywhere on that actual chart that says 25%,50%(Up/Down) anywhere. I see off to the right side where it has magic resistant (general) 25%

But no where under any of the "elements" <-- quote cause I think that's what the different colors are representing. I would also think if they had a resistance (like the key says) it would be posted in there.

Well as i stated on Alla, I'll do some naked nuking of shells in B. tree tonight. Naked so that no +elemental equipment can help me (only my merited +elemental). I'll do prolly 10 nukes per spell per day.I'll note the day, and spell, and since the crab should not despawn it'll be fairly consistant.

10 fire
10 thunder
10 water (yay>.>) <--can't wait to do 1 damage to him.
Then 10 of the each 'neutral' spells (and not the spell which day it is at the time of testing)

I'll post back here and let you know.. as well as alla. If you can think of suggestions or a better way to test this plz share.

[neighbortaru]

Re: spells not having very much effect


that help?

[Macht]

Re: spells not having very much effect

You know if anything if crabs are water base then they should be very resistant to Fire, Water should be neutral, Thunder should be a High weakness, and Ice should be a Low Weakness, the rest neutral.

Yes, the game follows a patter but it also has a double pattern.

Fire->Ice->Wind->Earth->Thunder->Water->Fire


Fire Base (High Weak, Low Weak, High Resistance
Fire->Ice->Wind->Earth->Thunder->Water->Fire

Ice Base (High Weak, Low Weak, High Resistance
Fire->Ice->Wind->Earth->Thunder->Water->Fire

Wind Base (High Weak, Low Weak, High Resistance
Fire->Ice->Wind->Earth->Thunder->Water->Fire

Earth Base (High Weak, Low Weak, High Resistance
Fire->Ice->Wind->Earth->Thunder->Water>Fire

See the pattern? It's the exactly secondary pattern that many items possess and has associations to the beasts as well. Even the pattern of the elements fit to the 9 initial beasts.

The 4 group (Sorry forgetting that beast chart) element wise goes:
Wind->Thunder->Fire->Wind

The 3 group goes:
Water->Ice->Earth

So there is a Tier 1 element weakness pattern, but also a Tier 2 element weakness pattern that more hidden away. With the more recent gear seems to suggest that a Tier 3 might exist, the Tier 3 probably has associations to the CoP mobs.

Basically for example a Crab the 2nd Tier elements suggest that it should be resistant to Fire, neutral to water, very weak to Thunder, and second weakness being Ice. If not Neutral to water then at least a low resistance.

EDIT:

Made a correction to the mob element associations, I goofed a little on it. Basically the 4 group are all associated to Light Group elements and 3 group are all associated to Dark Group elements.

If you don't know:

Light Group (Light, Fire, Wind, Thunder)
Dark Group (Dark, Earth, Water, Ice)

[Gyfford]

Re: spells not having very much effect

Basically for example a Crab the 2nd Tier elements suggest that it should be resistant to Fire, neutral to water

I was following you perfect until the neutral to water. I thought that water based mobs are the most resistant and/or take the less damage when using that spell.

Example is my pug pet vs warlocks. He casted Flood on my water pet, and it did 20 damage or w/e (and that's A.M.), then he casted burst and just rocked him 1500 or w/e. I just wish I was paying attn to the fire based spells.

*edit* oh yeah and that snapshot of the chart, thx... but like the key at the top says there should be %'s with the arrow to show if resistant somewhat. I don't see that anywhere.

I just don't see it being as cut and dry as Xelement based don't use that element spell... I'm thinking there is a bit more detail in it.

[neighbortaru]

Re: spells not having very much effect

I think Macht is trying to illustrate that using element affinity to determine mob resistance is not always correct, and counter to the logic.

*edit* oh yeah and that snapshot of the chart, thx... but like the key at the top says there should be %'s with the arrow to show if resistant somewhat. I don't see that anywhere

um, the legend up top says 'x' means 50% resistant so if you see an 'x' it's 50% resistant (btw, I read this as being flat out 50% reduction to damage as opposed to normal resistance which can vary).

[Macht]

Re: spells not having very much effect

I was following you perfect until the neutral to water. I thought that water based mobs are the most resistant and/or take the less damage when using that spell.

Example is my pug pet vs warlocks. He casted Flood on my water pet, and it did 20 damage or w/e (and that's A.M.), then he casted burst and just rocked him 1500 or w/e. I just wish I was paying attn to the fire based spells.

Well said it's either neutral or has a bit of resistance, then again I might be mixing it up. I'm doing this by head off the study I did, all my paper work is at home. I could be mixing it up and the Crab would be High Resistant to Water and Low Resistance to Fire.

Though I kind of doubt I'm mixing it up because lot of the times mobs I've fought seem to take normal or more to their element, but there is a lot of combinations to mess with still because as pointed before Bombs don't follow that structure, yet if Bombs are classified as something say Demon or (Crap forgot the other dark element mob type). They'd be a Dark element, so having a light element associated to it would be it's weakness the idea of purifying.

If you look at it the Bomb isn't really fire, it's a possessed object since the object protects it from the normal purification (Cure, Banish, etc..) it has to be purified by increasing the element it's possessing. It's not that it makes it blow up, if that was the case then any fire spell should of auto-triggered it's self-destruct.

To catch the difference before some states it, Element type monsters are not possessions. They are pure elements so it's only logical they'd have high resistance that element, but as pure elements demonstrate the best they hold very true to the teir 1 element make up or the very basic. So a Wind element would be weak to Ice. I still think it's a bad name for the spell, physics behind the spell is turn an object cold which for a wind element would be bad since it's composses of hot air rising and mixing with cooler air. So basically turning the entire wind element to cold air which distrupts it's presence, by the same flip of it fire or heating the wind should also have an effect.

[Gyfford]

Re: spells not having very much effect

Ah I see now what they did in the charts lol

Still left out all other elements except for ice/thunder/and water tho. Which is stuff we all know. Either you're not understanding my stand here or something. It does not say in that chart (fire been tested as neutral... X amount of spells X resists etc) It just skips over it.

We all know there are spells that just plain don't work on mobs, but how about spells that just plain work less than others? Different lv Tiers of resistance.

I'm done with this subject until tomorrow. I'll post data (hard numbers of as many spells, as I feel like doing on a Friday) That way it's not just people repeating the weakness chart and matching up the base element with what spell not to cast.

[neighbortaru]

Re: spells not having very much effect

it's not left out, it just means it's neutral.

if you poke around the studio gobli site, I'm sure you'll find the statistical break-down you are looking for.