manaburn become gimped

[Murphie]

Re: manaburn become gimped

How about some actual examples from people beyond quoting the release notes? Have any BLMs noticed a considerable difference in the way Impossible to Gauge mobs have reacted to their spells? What kind of difference are we talking about here? Are the fights now impossible, or merely slightly more difficult?

[Raydeus]

Re: manaburn become gimped

I agree with the Quincy.

They say right in the update that it will effect the magical type weapon skills and even give a couple for examples. The statement says the more magic damage they take the higher resistance goes, but there is a set cap for each of the mobs.

Although I think players are still having doubts about if the magic resistence affects all magic (the same way Magic Shield sends resistence to all forms of magic to the roof) or if it is element/skill-specific (which I really doubt).





PS > I noticed I wrote Quincy, but really everytime I see a post from you my brain thinks "Quincy" instead of Macht.

I blame that sig of yours.

[Macht]

Re: manaburn become gimped

I agree with the Quincy.



Although I think players are still having doubts about if the magic resistence affects all magic (the same way Magic Shield sends resistence to all forms of magic to the roof) or if it is element/skill-specific (which I really doubt).





PS > I noticed I wrote Quincy, but really everytime I see a post from you my brain thinks "Quincy" instead of Macht.

I blame that sig of yours.

Lol, guess I should take that as a compliment.

Really though just straight out number crunching taking just this part:

Resistance Fluctuation
When a monster with accumulative magic resistance is hit by a magic attack, the amount of damage it receives will decrease in accordance with that monster's resistance. At the same time, its resistance will increase.

Means if say mob has 15 resistance and say 5 damage is reduced (Don't know the resistance to damage ratio they are using). Along all magic attack having that 5 damage shaved off is enough to start generating a lot of damage reduction with just 15 mages casting at once that 5 damage reduction is 75 lost. Yeah, probably means 1 extra attack round but if damage reduction starts going to 10 off, 20 off, even 50 off magic based attacks and it's going to start hurting the effectivness. I mean 50 damage off along all the mages with just 15 of them means 750 damage resisted, that's excluding the true resistances that half the damage or totally null it.

With the resistance increasing the chances of getting halved or totally nulled on the spells is also increasing. Well idea of resistance still working in it's normal method along with the Fluctuating is a guess, that's something that could really effect if the change is really going to hurt or just mean number of Mages needed increases for the groups that do that.

[Icemage]

Re: manaburn become gimped

Quoting the update is all well and good, but initial observation shows that periodic magic bursting does not unduly impact damage from magic with as many as 4 BLMs from what I saw right after maintenance.

I'll have to check in with my LS and see if anyone has noticed anything unduly ridiculous, but it appears that the occasional magic burst doesn't really affect even moderate number of BLMs. I'm sure the picture will be very different if you're just freenuking everything like in Dynamis, but we'll have to wait to see some Dynamis reports come in to confirm that.


Icemage

[Macht]

Re: manaburn become gimped

Quoting the update is all well and good, but initial observation shows that periodic magic bursting does not unduly impact damage from magic with as many as 4 BLMs from what I saw right after maintenance.

I'll have to check in with my LS and see if anyone has noticed anything unduly ridiculous, but it appears that the occasional magic burst doesn't really affect even moderate number of BLMs. I'm sure the picture will be very different if you're just freenuking everything like in Dynamis, but we'll have to wait to see some Dynamis reports come in to confirm that.


Icemage

Yeah, but initial observation is not accuracte enough data either. It's as good as a theory, could be right and could not be.

It'll be intresting to see more solid data results, otherwise the initial observation is a good as the theory of "The grasshopper doesn't jump because it couldn't hear you."

[GiaCorleone]

Re: manaburn become gimped

Was referring to

Looks like the "nerf" actually did in fact happen. Apparently, monsters that con as Impossible to Gauge gain a culmative magic resistance when the same type of spell is cast over and over again on the mob.

Discuss amongst yourselves...............!

not your post Macht. And repeating the release notes and making up numbers about resistance is still speculation.

So far I've seen reports (actual numbers on actual (H)NMs in the game) that suggest the resistance build is very gradual and not terribly detrimental. I'm also working with LS members to parse damage out over several different fights, try to nail down some good statistics.

[Icemage]

Re: manaburn become gimped

Yeah, but initial observation is not accuracte enough data either. It's as good as a theory, could be right and could not be.

It'll be intresting to see more solid data results, otherwise the initial observation is a good as the theory of "The grasshopper doesn't jump because it couldn't hear you."

We were monitoring results at Fafnir, the longest running fight of the ground HNMs, and noticed no drop-off in magic burst damage at any point, with 4 average BLMs.

Your argument does not hold water; if the effects of the nerf were to be very pronounced, we'd certainly see it with that many BLMs over what ended up being about a 45 minute fight. Even towards the end of the fight we were still observing good damage being landed by magic bursts.

Now, it might be that Fafnir has a low threshhold while other NMs have a higher cap, but I guess we'll find out when someone actually notices it.


Icemage

[Macht]

Re: manaburn become gimped

All I'm trying to state is so far you may see no difference, but as much as I can not discredit your theory and observation you have no right to discredit mine till conclusive enough evidence is presented.

By your own admissions you stated just that with the comment about Fenrir and possibly others being more noticable.

Double Post Edited:

Was referring to

not your post Macht. And repeating the release notes and making up numbers about resistance is still speculation.

So far I've seen reports (actual numbers on actual (H)NMs in the game) that suggest the resistance build is very gradual and not terribly detrimental. I'm also working with LS members to parse damage out over several different fights, try to nail down some good statistics.

Well it will be intresting to see what results you get, if you have a before numbers for the HNMs too with the change would be even better.

[Balodoth]

Re: manaburn become gimped

What's the verdict on the arkangels?

[SonikU4ia]

Re: manaburn become gimped

If you want to have an actual discussion about this, we need specifics. Which (H)NM showed a marked resistance over time? How bad were the resists? How long until the resistance wore off? Did it only resist the element that had been thrown at it, or all elements equally?

Fear mongering and speculation are a waste of time.

Sorry, you've grossly misunderstood what I said. Was trying to breathe life back into the thread and possibly get some ppls input that play their BLMs at 75 on HNMs. Was in a hurry, simply noticed this thread and new about the update, so quickly posted. So, please don't do any speculation of your own and misrepresent my intentions.

[Thank you.]

At any rate, my friends in my LS have noticed no difference in changes as well during HNMs. So, that makes me wonder what the situation is.

[Aeni]

Re: manaburn become gimped

We were monitoring results at Fafnir, the longest running fight of the ground HNMs, and noticed no drop-off in magic burst damage at any point, with 4 average BLMs.

Icemage

I'm willing to place my money that the changes overlooked MBs or maybe SE doesn't care about MBs.

What you should try to do is monitor damage OUTSIDE of MBs. For example, do KS30 Operation Desert Swarm with 5 BLMs and see if the changes were implemented. I don't think you'd want to risk Faffy on solo BLM overnuking from 8 BLMs, but by all means, feel free to do so.

[Anaki]

Re: manaburn become gimped

magic bursts requires 2 melees and a blm this update was to prevent the 2 blms and another blm + some more .so it might be safe to assume that MB ignores this update. where MB does not give the mob a resistence bonus. or where MB operates off of the base resistence