I love you BLMs...

[Murphie]

Re: I love you BLMs...

She's also taking this to a ridiculous point. Placing the blame (once again) on the person falling asleep in some sort of desperate attempt to justify punishing them for it.

Sometimes people fall asleep while playing. It's not that common, and it does suck, but that doesn't justify childishly MPKing them (or leaving them to die) because of it. Especially if you have mages in the party that can D2 or Teleport.

[Kirsteena]

Re: I love you BLMs...

To back up, when I am ill, I can fall asleep at the most amazing times - but as I relax by playing FFXI, it means if I am ill, there is a slim chance I may fall asleep on you. Not a huge chance, but slim.

[Spinnthrift]

Re: I love you BLMs...

I've had parties where at 1.00am in the morning.. I said - "Guys - I need to go.. it's 2am, can you look for a replace for me... I'm soo tired.".

Party leader said sure... and that he'd look for a replace.

1.40am - no one has turned up.. and I'm now dead on my feet - trying to pull...

2.20am - I ask has a puller been found, having done a /sea myself and seen people who can fill the role just fine...

Get no reply... silence... nada...

2.40am - told I have to stay another 60 minutes before a replace can come (after we've been partying for five hours already).

2.55 am, I apologise to the rest of the party - and log out before I fall asleep on the pull. Am told that I'd stayed longer than was necessary, and that I should have left much earlier (by the other party members, and that the party leader was being a little lazy turd.

Kudos to Aeni's party for saving the day for everyone... sometimes people do just push themselves a little too hard for this game - thinking their reputation might get harmed by leaving a party early.

Not Kudos to Jenifa for being stubborn to the point of silliness. It happens sometimes - people get tired. People aren't machines. Punishing someone because your exp chain got ruined is pathetic and childish, especially for something that probably wasn't a deliberate mistake.

Another vote for obtuse.

- Saeriel

[Jenifa]

Re: I love you BLMs...

I've had parties where at 1.00am in the morning.. I said - "Guys - I need to go.. it's 2am, can you look for a replace for me... I'm soo tired.".

Party leader said sure... and that he'd look for a replace.

1.40am - no one has turned up.. and I'm now dead on my feet - trying to pull...

2.20am - I ask has a puller been found, having done a /sea myself and seen people who can fill the role just fine...

Get no reply... silence... nada...

2.40am - told I have to stay another 60 minutes before a replace can come (after we've been partying for five hours already).

2.55 am, I apologise to the rest of the party - and log out before I fall asleep on the pull. Am told that I'd stayed longer than was necessary, and that I should have left much earlier (by the other party members, and that the party leader was being a little lazy turd.

np with this!! Effort has been made, I dont know if I would have stayed as long....

Problem I have is with people just "sleep" and no effort to tell PT they are struggling. I cant see how people can argue for this. People cannot be so desensitised to tiredness that they do not realise they are about to fall sleep on their feet?

If i know I am getting tired I will tell PT i am tired and that I have to go soon to sleep. Its my way of playing with responsiblity to myself irl and to the other PT members.

Yes I still stand by my actions tho, I would prolly MPK them to teach them a lesson. If they have made efforts or made leader or other PT members aware of course I would D2 them.

These mysterious sleepers are prolly the same people with mysterious connection losts too... both which I do not condone.

I have fallen asleep 2 times, neither in XP PT. If I woke up and found myself dead then I would have no problem with that, just so you know I do not have double-standards. Maybe just high-standards. (one time was on Kirin fight ... sorry!! and other time was farming lanterns for ZM4.... was there for a VERY long time!)

[Ryddr]

Re: I love you BLMs...

I'm fairly sure that both points are valid though not necessarily clear.

Leaving someone to die in the middle of IT territory is clearly wrong, but I think that point has been made and is done with.

Now, Jenifa is saying that there is no good reason why someone should not at least say {I'm sleepy.} before they crash out in their chair.

If they are narcoleptic or have some other sleeping disorder they need to inform the party of the possiblities beforehand. However, most people can at least manage a simple auto-translated message before they become incoherent. Personally, I think if someone often can't manage to stay awake for late parties, then they need to party earlier and do something that doesn't affect other players during the late hours.

[Murphie]

Re: I love you BLMs...

I totally agree that if someone does realize they are getting tired that they should say something. But if someone doesn't say something and falls asleep that doesn't give you reason to MPK them as punishment.

That's just shitty and childish.

[Jenifa]

Re: I love you BLMs...

When you been in a few more xp pt's aelathir you may change your perspective about people having little or no consideration for other pt members.

in my opinion you should only PT if you have the time to PT and not grind away til you collapse. How anyone can argue against this is beyond me...

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/technology/4137782.stm

http://app1.chinadaily.com.cn/star/2003/0501/vo2-4.html

http://www.jsonline.com/story/index.aspx?id=31536

http://www.iht.com/articles/2006/06/.../addside12.php

After playing the game for 36 hours straight, he had a psychotic break because of sleep deprivation, Parker said.

The man had not slept properly, and had eaten very little during his marathon session, said police.

Ref: South Korea :-

Last year, the deaths of at least seven people were attributed to excessive game- playing.

Obviously extreme cases to reach the news...

[Kirsteena]

Re: I love you BLMs...

Lol that's only Aelathir's third character...

Personally I have had sleepers in parties before, we giggle a bit, then find someway of getting them safe - escape, d2 or teleport. Since the party would probably end anyway, its not difficult - I've even changed jobs in Quicksands Caves, come back and d2ed someone before now... To me that is responsible gaming. I have done stupid things before - starting Dynamis at 1am my time (go go go NA linkshells), and have fallen asleep - sometimes you think you are less tired than you are.

Mpking them just for falling asleep is kinda childish tbh...

[Aeolus]

Re: I love you BLMs...

Why do you need to kill them Sure, your exp has stopped but so has thiers, why do you need to take more off them to teach them a lesson?You could spend that time youve spent killing them in just getting a replacement. Its just scummy killing someone for such a pathetic reason.

Sure, if theres no available way to get them out just disband them, if they die its their own fault at least.

[Jenifa]

Re: I love you BLMs...

Sure, if theres no available way to get them out just disband them, if they die its their own fault at least.

yup that works

[Gwynn]

Re: I love you BLMs...

Theres no justifiable reason for letting someone die because they fall asleep. The tank in particular has been holding the mob's hate for the duration of the party, taking all the abuse as well as several deaths with exp loss (~_~ if its anything like how my EXP has been going lately), and you'd show your appreciation by letting him be sodomized by a raptor? Playing FFXI is playing with a community. Are you saying that if a friend of yours falls asleep during a RL party (the kind with pizza and booze and whatnot >.>), you'd let him/her be taken by some drunk off to a shack in the woods 100 miles away and sodomized there?

<.< Yeah, I'm blowing it out of proportion, but its the same basic principle... kinda... ish. Obtuse.

[Jenifa]

Re: I love you BLMs...

Are you saying that if a friend of yours falls asleep during a RL party (the kind with pizza and booze and whatnot >.>), you'd let him/her be taken by some drunk off to a shack in the woods 100 miles away and sodomized there?

Ted Bundy go to many of your parties?

[Murphie]

Re: I love you BLMs...

Jenifa, as Kirsteena so astutely pointed out, this isn't my first time at the Rodeo. Don't be decieved by the job levels in my sig (that I really need to update more often). I've been playing this game (and other MMOs) since 2003.

The first time someone ever fell asleep in an exp party of mine was an LS member in Castle Oztroja. We were getting exp up near where the coffer mobs spawn (yay for static flexibility), and our DRG fell asleep, hard. We managed to survive the fight, and then waited around a while just in case he'd gone AFK mysteriously. When we figured it out, we just Tele-Dem'd out, and went on our merry way without him. The next day when he logged back on he apologized profusely, but we just teased him about it rather than make him feel bad.

People fall asleep sometimes. It happens. It would be great if they let us know ahead of time that they were getting very tired, but if they don't, that doesn't give us carte blanche to punish them. Why you keep sidestepping that issue is beyond me.

[Jenifa]

Re: I love you BLMs...

People fall asleep sometimes. It happens. It would be great if they let us know ahead of time that they were getting very tired, but if they don't, that doesn't give us carte blanche to punish them. Why you keep sidestepping that issue is beyond me.

i dont think i've side-stepped any issue.

Jenifa, as Kirsteena so astutely pointed out, this isn't my first time at the Rodeo. Don't be decieved by the job levels in my sig (that I really need to update more often). I've been playing this game (and other MMOs) since 2003.

I know, I have read another post that says this is not your first character. Maybe take a break from MMORPG and you will see that losing 2k of xp isnt the end of the world...

[Irisjir Callard]

Re: I love you BLMs...

Personally, I don't see how the OP KNEW that the tank had fallen asleep unless he'd already mentioned <I'm sleepy> a time or two.

There is incredible pressure to stay until you find yourself a replacement, and when you're hazy from being about to pass out, sometimes it honestly does seem easier to hang in there and try to wait out the party. Remember, there is a very very basic logic chain going on...

"I am very tired and it is very late. These other people are speaking decent English, so they must live within 4 time zones of me. Therefore, there is a high likelihood that it is also late for them, and any moment now we will all agree that it's time to go to bed. It wouldn't be fair to drag someone out here to the boonies when we're probably going to disband in another half hour anyway."

Clinging to this thread of hope, it's very easy to push yourself much farther than is admittedly safe. Remember, when your judgement is impaired, YOUR JUDGEMENT IS IMPAIRED. You don't stop and think "Wow I'm harming myself by doing this," just like you don't stop and think "This stuff is actually poisonous to me" before you chug down a pitcher of beer.


Not to mention, I was EXPing with one of my friends when she suddenly stopped reacting. She was I beleive the THF and puller at the time. No more SATA. No more viper bite. When the battle ended, she sheathed her weapon and did not move.

We all /poked her for a while, and I sent her a number of /tells, got no response, and we all finally got a new puller.

Three days later, I get a message from her:

"Sorry I abandoned that party. My house got broken into and I was assaulted. I've been at the hospital."




It just goes to show that you never know. Would it really have been the right thing to do to to leave her character there to die, because her house got broken into and burgled, her arm got broken, and she had to give statements to the police and pay bookoo hospital bills?

Would logging in again to a dead character in Crawler's Nest really have made her stop and think "Wow I shouldn't let a man throw a rock through the window and climb in after it anymore?"