Is there practical way to avoid agro when casting?

[Sova]

Hi, i'm quite new to the blackmage job and have it up to level 22 so far. I have died more times in Qufim Island than i would like and its because i end up drawing too much hate when casting cure on my party members for casting elemental spells on the enemy. Usually i do not spam cure or spam damage spells of couse, but it seems i'm not sure how to draw the line between how often to cast spells to avoid getting one-shotted by the enemy and taking an unwanted dirt nap. Should it be me who is careful the most in managing hate or the tank who should take care of most the agro? Thanks.

[Tirrock]

Re: Is there practical way to avoid agro when casting?

Problem: Pulling too much hate by casting too many spells.

Solution: Cast less spells.

It is the tank's job to try to keep hate, but I don't think there's many tanks that can hold hate long against a BLM that is trying to take hate. You should still be careful with how much you cast. Not every tank is the same. Some you barely even have to worry about your hate, others you can't even look at the monster funny without pulling it off of them.

[Ghostraven]

Re: Is there practical way to avoid agro when casting?

some tips:
-Use lower level cures when you can. Spamming cure 1 is most times better at lower levels than using cure II every few hits because Cure II carries more hate with it. (more HP cured = more hate towards you, which is why benediction can get you killed)

-Wait until right after a provoke if you are gonna nuke hard or cure hard. Provoke is a hate spike. If your tank is halfway decent you shouldn't make the mob turn right after a voke.

-Stay resting for mp until after the second voke, let the tank get some hate built on him, or cast your debuffs (shock, burn, etc) first before nuking, they carry little hate compared to most your other spells.

I could go on forever but you will learn how to manage your casting just by watching the mob and paying attention to what your tank is doing. In most parties you cannot just chain nuke, be patient with your spells you don't have to be casting every second.

[neighbortaru]

Re: Is there practical way to avoid agro when casting?

Problem: Pulling too much hate by casting too many spells.

Solution: Cast less spells.

Priceless

As BLM, you either learn how to toe the hate line or you die many times.

[DrivenTooFar]

Re: Is there practical way to avoid agro when casting?

As a Black Mage I would usually wait a while in between casting nukes. Towards the end is when I would really pile it on. Also, if you are doing a lot of backup healing then your nukes will suffer if you want to avoid the hate.

[Aeni]

Re: Is there practical way to avoid agro when casting?

Problem: Pulling too much hate by casting too many spells.

Solution: Cast less spells.

It is the tank's job to try to keep hate, but I don't think there's many tanks that can hold hate long against a BLM that is trying to take hate. You should still be careful with how much you cast. Not every tank is the same. Some you barely even have to worry about your hate, others you can't even look at the monster funny without pulling it off of them.

What he said.

[WishMaster3K]

Re: Is there practical way to avoid agro when casting?

Or, maybe you're casting the wrong* spells? I would suggest Aero and Fire instead of Thunder and Blizzard. The higher the MP and the later you get it (I.E- you get Thunder as the last of your Tier I spells, so it is generally the strongest), the stronger it is. Thunder and Blizzard do a LOT of damage and carry a lot of hate.

Fire and Aero do moderate damage and give you the same hate as any other DD. Also, in terms of MP usage, Fire and Aero casting go a lot farther than Thunder and Blizzard.

ALSO, at your level, resists are common, especially for BLMs, so you won't suffer as much if you get a resisted Fire as opposed to a resisted Thunder.

If you must cast stronger spells, save the MP for Magic Bursts.

[Icemage]

Re: Is there practical way to avoid agro when casting?

If he's level 22 chances are he's in Qufim, where Thunder and Blizzard are key to low resist rates, though.

One thing to do is to make sure to wait a bit before you start nuking. Tanks need a bit of time to build up enmity, so start off fights with low-aggro spells like Choke or Blind, then pile on damage when the monster is close to dead (and remember that magic bursts are your friend).


Icemage

[Taskmage]

Re: Is there practical way to avoid agro when casting?

Rationing hate is just something you develop an intuition for as a black mage. When you draw hate, take note of the context - what spell you were casting, how long since the last voke, what kind of tank, etc. Just learn from your mistakes and eventually knowing what spells you can cast at any given time without getting hate will be instinct. I was really bad at managing hate when I was in Qufim with blm also, but now that I'm out of the jungles ... well let's just say I'm much better and leave it at that.

All of the above are good tips. If you're still having trouble spacing out your nukes throughout the battle, you might try switching to a strategy of waiting until the mob gets down to 25% hp or so and nuking the living crap out of it. Figuring out how much damage you can do in a burst to kill the mob just as you get hate is much easier to get a handle on than intuiting the hate balance in the party at any given moment.

[Aeni]

Re: Is there practical way to avoid agro when casting?

Taskmage, you would think that be the case. But I was in a party where a level 52 BLM thought it would be a grand idea to cast Freeze 5 seconds into battle. The Ninja thought it was a funny joke ... until about the 3rd fight where the BLM did this and then we're like ... wtf?

[Tirrock]

Re: Is there practical way to avoid agro when casting?

I think parties hate me when I get bored on damage dealing classes... I'm sure the NIN I partied with from about 52 to 57 BLM did.
Rest until monster is at about 75% HP... light nuke > aspir > drain (even if at full HP...I use it to keep dark capped without overwriting dia's DEF down, plus it's great damage for the MP cost) > light nuke > blink > stoneskin > firaga II magic burst > nuke again while monster is trying to eat me to finish him > rest and repeat :D

That's only when I got bored, though. >_> Sometimes I'd misjudge how much HP the monster had left and they'd have to panic to kill it before it killed me. I did similar stuff with my MNK involving berserk and counterstance. (Which surprisingly, has only gotten me killed once...and that time involved 100 fists too. 900 damage ripper fang, or whatever that 3 hit raptor move is, for the win!)

Anyway. If you're planning on going BLM main, you'll likely pick it up before you hit 40. Then in the 40's you'll cry because you'll get resisted a lot. (I know I did, and when I was on my first BLM leveling spree, I had all but morion +1's for INT.) Then at 51 you get elemental staves and it helps a lot. Then 54 with AF hands of hotness...and 56 with shaman cloak...

Erm. Rambling again.

If you're just leveling to 37, I wouldn't worry about it too much. If you're going for BLM main, I'm pretty sure you'll pick it up in due time... If you don't, I suggest leveling something else.

[Balfree]

Re: Is there practical way to avoid agro when casting?

Dont cast anything until the tank Vokes.

Dont cast anything until someone attacks, you can do it later, but for now any damage you take might bring you down alot, so dont.

Dont spam, count 15-20 seconds between nukes.

If tank says "Voke in 20 secs" you wait 20 secs and only nuke once he vokes, try healing MP while youre waiting.

If you're already taking hate, stop, sit down.

Dont neglect some buffs, at early levels you dont have much, but cast flame spikes if you have to, anything helps, once you get stoneskin, use it like its your religion, i only stoped casting blink and skin constantly around lv70, but i still do it before MB or a big nuke.

If you follow all these tips and still you get hate after you cast a nuke, your tank isnt doing much of a great job, or your PT simply doesnt work with BLM, im thinking early NIN (or recent BLU tanks) who might have a hard time keeping hate, its best to keep nukes to a minimum if you have one of those jobs tanking, ideally you should ATLEAST MB, and cast maybe 2-3 more nukes throughout the battle, dont overdo it, you might be a great DD, but it comes at a price.

[Sova]

Re: Is there practical way to avoid agro when casting?

Thankyou^^ for the tips. I have been learning in similar ways with my whm. I used to be a paladin a long time ago and had to manage hate collection but those days are long past and i need to realize how hate works again. Especially when i'm on the other side of the line..

[Rico]

Re: Is there practical way to avoid agro when casting?

All these tips are nice, but the main one you have to get yourself and thats common sense.

If you nuke at the start of the fight and no hate is managed well, what are you thinking?

With experience on leveling the job. I'm pretty sure you'll learn what and what not to do in parties with tanks.

[Jkid]

Re: Is there practical way to avoid agro when casting?

My advice to a black mage is to stick to enfebling (sp?) magic unless a party does a skillchain. Then use your nukes during the skillchain.