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  • #61
    Re: New Power for Blms with update

    Pet Attack roll doesn't add much damage against Vrtra. We're much more concerned about accuracy since it's normally hard to land all hits from Garuda's Predator Claws even with a bunch of Avatar Accuracy merits and SMN AF1 legs + SMN AF hands (probably due to level difference).

    ---

    Zenith has a very useful place in manaburn groups and other quick-damage-burst situations. More so than any other piece of gear you have at those slots, it adds more max MP - you can swap it out after you spend some, which doesn't take long. The -HPs are troublesome, but generally not a worry at the start of a chain, since the BRD or RDM or both have plenty of MP to spare at that point, and are probably going to throw a Curaga or two at some point early just to cover it in any case even if you manage to take some damage through Stoneskin and Blink. And you can usually Drain it back in any case, except against HNMs, who generally don't take much damage from it.

    I already said why using Phalanx in manaburn parties was a waste of time, and losing Cures isn't going to break your party when there's 4-5 other mages in the party who can cast them. BLMs shouldn't generally be casting cures anyway in a manaburn party - when they're curing, they're not nuking or resting, which are the two activities that make the XP come in for the party.

    Which really brings the comparison back to Stoneskin for you vs. an extra shadow from Blink for everyone in your party. If you can't see why this is a net gain for a manaburn party, then perhaps it's because you don't trust the other members of your party enough.

    ---

    As I've mentioned previously, BLM/PLD is pretty constricted, but there are still situations where it could be better than other subs. As for BLM/PLD, normal sky XP/merit parties on Weapons with a BLM present fall something along the lines of:

    Ninja, Melee/NIN, Melee/NIN, RDM or BRD, Healer, BLM

    In such a setup, you don't need the Curaga or status removal from /WHM. You don't need Dispel or Fast Cast from /RDM. You don't need extra blinkshadows from /SMN. You'd still get the Cures, you get Auto-Refresh, but you lose out on some defensive spells. Whether it's worth it... I have no idea, but it's certainly at least a viable tactic since such parties are always roaming, which puts a premium on Auto-Refresh.

    I'd also assert that a manaburn party with a set of unusual subs could probably earn more XP than a typical all-/RDM setup:
    BLM/SMN
    BLM/PLD
    BLM/COR
    BLM/WHM
    BLU/WHM
    BRD/WHM

    Between Diamondhide and Aerial Armor, you're not losing anything defensively, you still have 4 people who can cure, plus you get a slight XP boost from Corsair's Roll you can probably net more XP without sacrificing any efficiency.


    Icemage

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    • #62
      Re: New Power for Blms with update

      Arguing BLM equipment and tactics with a BRD / WHM ftw.

      To quote the people camping Besieged: Yawn.

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      • #63
        Re: New Power for Blms with update

        Originally posted by Amadeo
        Arguing BLM equipment and tactics with a BRD / WHM ftw.

        To quote the people camping Besieged: Yawn.
        QFT.

        BLM need to start realising they have positions in a party not only for damage.

        You know what weapons love doing? Aggroing, and linking. If you have to sleep and take hits, you're making more work for the rest of the party. The idea in an exp PT is to make things as slipstream and fast as possible, subbing PLD is simply retarded on all levels, the arguements you made for it are ridiculous.

        End of story, I can't be bothered to reply to this thread anymore, just hope none of the BLM on my server read it and take it seriously.

        Double Post Edited:
        And on that matter - who the hell merits in sky anymore? lolkthx.
        Last edited by Sethe; 05-27-2006, 08:36 AM. Reason: Automerged Doublepost

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        • #64
          Re: New Power for Blms with update

          How about you provide some tangible or logical proof of your position instead of simply parroting the party line, hm?

          I've partied with BLM/SMN in many, many manaburn parties. They work just fine - I don't notice any drop-off in party damage taken overall, but I do notice a lot more bravery on the part of the other BLMs as far as deciding to nuke instead of casting Stun. I wouldn't turn down a BLM/PLD if they can justify their choice (though they'd best be GOOD reasons).

          I'm not saying that BLM/PLD is the end-all and be all - it's quite obvious that it's not, but unlike some of the people in this thread, I'm not willing to dismiss it out of hand either. I used to think BST/RDM was a silly combination too, until I saw a good friend using it quite successfully for Dispel.

          Get over your preconceived notions and learn something in the process. There's no single "right" way to do anything in FFXI, and just because the majority of players thinks everything should always be done by the book, that does not mean you are obligated to follow when circumstances dictate otherwise.


          Icemage

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          • #65
            Re: New Power for Blms with update

            End of the day, everything is situational. /rdm is, /whm is, heck even /smn and /pld you are suggesting are.

            If you have one and need another yoru gonna be screwed over either way. Its a personal choice what you sub, i know what i sub and what i will offer to sub on blm and thats that. I cant personally see any advantage of subbing smn or pld after all the agruements being put forward, so yes ill stick to the "cookie-cutter" mold if you like. Whatever works for you i guess. Until i ever see a different sub in action i wont agree to like it, because i have never seen it work.
            Blm 75 - One and only love! Lets nuke!
            Originally Posted by Kirsteena
            Oh crap, lock down your beer.....
            Originally Posted by Sethe
            QFT!
            With Kutu around no alcohol is safe. Hide ya beer!
            www.konohals.eu - Endgame EU ls, bahamut server

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            • #66
              Re: New Power for Blms with update

              Originally posted by Djonma
              Lovely discussion ^^

              Can I just say, as a Paladin player, that the abilities you're pointing out you'd gain with subbing pld are massive hate drawers.
              Shield bash and sentinal draw a lot of hate.
              And Flash is even worse!
              There's a reason pld's use those abilities.
              I can keep hate in a fight without ever voking if I need to.

              You want to lose a TON of mp to be able to get the mob hitting you instead of your tank?

              I'm not saying it won't be good in situational fights; I've not been to sky. But I can see a poor little blm with not very much defence getting hit a lot if they use pld abilities much.

              I'm all for trying different jobs and sub jobs; I play war as war/drg for the massive damage, I'd worry about hate though with /pld.
              Actually Im a lvl 69 Pld as well, and while these abilities are used to ensure hate gain, they do so primarily because of all the +enmity a Pld also uses to magnify them. Although I Flash all the time as Pld to keep mob hating me, I Also used Flash as often as I can when I am on Whm to reduce damage taken (especially with a Nin tank & shadows down) and I sure didnt draw the ire of the mob, since it is now being modified by the -enmity I have on Whm. Flash does have a decent base hate I concede, but its nothin compared to a solid hit from a member of your party when you have -enmity.

              Also when Im in a manaburn with my usual linkshell members I hardly even cast ANY defensive spells as 1 volley of 4 T4's or B4's generally takes down most targets.

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              • #67
                Re: New Power for Blms with update

                Originally posted by nugzkraka
                This is a BLM post... its assumed BLM/PLD lol
                Point still stands, really. I mean, if you have enough people to cover cures, and someone is going to end up taking hate anyhow, but none has dual shadows, how exactly is /PLD any worse?

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                • #68
                  Re: New Power for Blms with update

                  Here's something nobody has mentioned, when exping with sanction, you can get an auto refresh (1mp/3sec), you can sub pld (1mp/3sec), and you can wear Black Cloak (1mp/3sec). Which adds up to 3mp/3sec... oooor constant refresh without the actuall spell. As for actually doing good damage, just macro in Weskit/head before a nuke, and switch back to Black Cloak after.
                  Aside from the downsides every has mentioned, lack of blink/stoneskin/phalanx/erase/dispel, what nobody has mentioned that we get spells at different levels, ie, we'd lose shell 2 (which only get at 74/75), plus the higher hp/lower mp deal, but meh.
                  I know this is kinda silly point to make, since we'd only be doing this at 70+, and thus have Cure 3 from /pld but this is more to make it a point that people below 70 shouldn't even conisder it, due to the lack of the primarily desired trait, and the potential lack of Cure 3.

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                  • #69
                    Re: New Power for Blms with update

                    If you guys are talking about the refresh.... you cant say Cure 3 is good then.

                    Becuase if you use Cure 3 then you wasting all that mp you refreshed.. LOL

                    I would rather not get hit. I dont ever use Cure 3.. ever lol. Waste of MP you guys are funny though. /PLD hehe ... heheheheheh

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                    • #70
                      Re: New Power for Blms with update

                      I don't understand why people would give up Fast Cast II, it keeps chains alive.
                      Character: Jememy 75WHM/75BLM/37SMN/37DRK/37RDM/37NIN
                      Rank 10 Bastok
                      ZM: Complete
                      COP: Complete Tamas Ring
                      Sever: Gilgamesh
                      Linkshell: IZergGenbu
                      Aristocrat's Coat: O
                      Cleric's Briault: O

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