Which?

[Rogan]

Well, recently I've been discussing with my ls about blm/whm and blm/rdm, I'm leveling both to 37 (whm possibly to 38), although they say that /rdm is really for end game and soloing, and whm for exp pts, I checked it and, although erase is nice, from rdm sub you get at my level, 2 more int,(4 end game) and only 8 less MP(I think 15 end game), not to mention mobs do often need dispelling, however they tell me for exp pts go /whm, im not sure really what to do, but im leaning towards /rdm, any suggestions?

[Icemage]

Re: Which?

INT = makes hardly any difference other than a fistful of damage points once you pass about +10-+15. If there's an effect on spell resistance past that point, I certainly can't tell.

Max MP = makes even less difference. BLMs spend most of their time resting anyway, so max MP doesn't come far into the formula once you have enough to cast what you need before you're resting again.

Erase = Very useful, but not absolutely necessary in most situations.

Dispel from RDM sub is also very useful, but again, not always necessary.

If you're planning to level both subs, then just level them both. They each have their advantages (/WHM gets access to blink and stoneskin a bit earlier, for instance).

For general XP purposes, /WHM usually is better. When you're soloing, /RDM wins hands down due to Phalanx and Gravity.


Icemage

[truenoir]

Re: Which?

The other factor for /RDM is Fast Cast. One reason people point at it for endgame is because Fast Cast II is level 35, so a 70+ BLM/RDM will get that. Apparently it's nice for bursting spells then due to timing. You also have the added benefit of lowered recast times. By that point /RDM will have Stoneskin as well, so things are a little more equal.

However, it's not just Erase that /WHM brings. You have other status removal spells, Curaga to help recover from AoE, Divine Seal if you really need to heal someone, teleports, Raise, ReRaise, etc. Sure, you don't always want to resort to losing 1800XP or being responsible for removing status on party members. But at least with /WHM you have the option.

I've never wound up using /RDM for XP yet. Well, I did once in the jungles, but that was because I was swapping subs to refill MP and forgot to change back to /WHM. I think it's good to have the option though. I've had a few times where BLM/RDM have been very useful like taking Ullikummi in a manaburn style setup. My grav gets resisted, one of them ES gravs it. Or in Moon fighting the stupid RDM weapons a BLM/RDM Dispelling with me is useful. I think that probably with a BRD/WHM and WHM in the party /RDM is probably also good for Gravity and a faster recast Dispel if needed.
If you could only have one sub, /WHM would be it. /RDM is a strong second sub though. I woudn't abandon either one, they both have uses.

[Zempten]

Re: Which?

I think it really depends on the type of mobs your fighting.

For example, Tigers have a consistant and dangerous AE paralyze. 1 WHM wouldn't be enough to paralyna 3-6 members (3 if only the meeles, 6 if the entire PT). Having the SJ WHM will allow you to help out the situation. The faster that paralyze is cured the better. It doesn't matter if your WHM is super uber and can remove a guy's Paralyze effect the second it lands. There is still a timer on the spell before recast ( even though it is indeed short ). It all boils down to teamwork ^^

As for solo situations, those guys above me already explained it ^^

[Rogan]

Re: Which?

well I leveled them both, rdm is still only 35 so im kinda delaying 37 til i hit 70 cause im not a big fan of rdm pre 40-41, but i deffinitely agree its pretty situational which sub to use, but i end up using /whm for the most part for the erase and na spells as opposed to the buffs mob put up which normally gets dispelled by the rdm, but ive had a few instances where rdm was a better choice such as one refresher-less party which worked out decently about 4k an hour, but for soloing and weapons im sure it will come into use

[Tsama]

Re: Which?

/rdm or /whm a fight that has been going on for far too long, possibly will not end until the game ends.

There are many reasons to choose either of the 2. There are equally as many reasons not to choose either of the 2.

First /whm has the ability to raise, which is always an added plus in any situation. But, if you are raising someone in a party shit has really hit the fan. This should not be the tendency, so to make your decision on this would be fool heartedly.

Second /whm gets erase, which really is a big thing. When you can erase things, int down, silence etc... you are a viable addition to any party.... But, with this comes another problem, if you are in an exp party and the main healer, weather be rdm or whm, can't erase there is a big problem. No intelligent main healer goes anywhere without echo drops. So your ability to erase would be an added bonus to help toss an erase when the tank needs it.

Next /whm gets Curagas which is helpful, this one is a no bad part. These are very helpful... They come in handy when a goblin decides to suicide bomb, or a weapon decides it's gonna just be a prick and use it's tp. Definate plus to have.

-bar spells, while these spells aren't really that important they can help, but your main healer should have them anyway. So no biggie.

Now, to fully look at /whm you need to first consider what you want to do in a party. If you want to be a more verse individual and help the party out more, then yes /whm is probably more the way to go. With the raise ability, -ga abilities and other small traits this is very helpful in a party situation. But!!! let's not just shooo /rdm out the door.

With /rdm first thing you get is Fast Cast. {Yes, Please} This is outrageously sweet, and with the new shoes that enhance fast cast if you sub rdm you are even sweeter.

When you sub rdm you also get cure spells Cure I, Cure II, Cure III. Which are all very helpful.

You get a higher enfeebling magic with /rdm, which can be very useful, and very much needed. Don't believe me on this, look for the video of the guy soloing KS30. So that is less likely hood of having your sleep resisted.

Another bonus for /rdm and this does play in in exp parties is phlanx. Yea, yea, your saying phlanx won't help in an exp party... Like heck it won't... Don't believe me... You need to see what happened when a goblin dropped my nin in the party, with 25% HP left, guess who tanked for the rest of the fight?

Without phlanx it wouldn't of been do-able.

Now when you come up to the decision on which of the 2 to choose, I say it depends on what you want to do in your parties, if your goal is to be a more secondary role and help cure etc... then /whm is the way to go.

But, if you want to throw more nukes be the little evil bastard that you are suppose to be. /rdm is the way to go.

I am personally a /rdm and love it. Very rarely am I questioned on why I am /rdm in a party, and usually when I am, my actions show why I chose my sub.

Though as previously said, small amounts of mp and small amounts of int don't really do much... It is about +3 damage per spell for every +1 int. and 15 mp isn't enough for me to laugh at. I spend that without even thinking.

This debate is one of personal preferrence and when you decide what you want to be, what kind of player you want to be then, you can decide your sub.

Though /smn is also a really good sub choice, equally as good as both of those subs if played correctly. It pretty much depends on the persons ability to use what they have.

[Icemage]

Re: Which?

You get a higher enfeebling magic with /rdm, which can be very useful, and very much needed. Don't believe me on this, look for the video of the guy soloing KS30. So that is less likely hood of having your sleep resisted.

Tsama's information is all correct except for the above. Your enfeebling magic skill is not affected by /RDM sub as BLM since BLM have natural enfeebling skill higher than their /RDM sub will give. I use /RDM on my WHM for solo play quite a bit, it has zero impact on my enfeebling success.


Icemage