NIN + BLM will it

[Menech]

Hi,

I have been partying with a NIN tank lately and was looking for any pointers how we can work together better.

We always have a THF, but they insisit on starting the mob off with a SC 1/2 the time. So I usually end up pulling hate on the mob and can't really nuke the rest of the fight.

I'll do burn, then it goes enpi >> viper >> blizz2, mob comes right for me ; ; Than I can't even get away with casting another level 2 nuke the rest of the fight.

Even when they do the renkei towards the end of the fight and I have the chance to burst waterga2 about 70% of the time I manage to pull the mob towards me. So I end up casting blizz2 instead for less damage.

I really would like to do some good damage. Currently I do about 600-800 per fight but I need up sitting there bored and finish the fights with tons of mana. I know I can do well over 1000 per fight and still have mana for the chains but we cant seem to get hate under control.

I am very used to hate bubble since whm was my main job, but I did static with a PLD and this is my first time trying this with a NIN tank.

any advice? The nin is willing to spend money and uses powders to help draw hate. We try for a NIN, THF, WHM, BLM + bard or redmage, and whatever for the 3rd melee.

Oh and I'm currently lvl 48...but I can't see it getting any better since at lvl 51 I will have +3 more INT and staves for more dmg...

thanks in advance^^

*** Maybe I should post in NIN board?

[Rogan]

yeah nin tanks and blm or rng don't work..at all I suggest getting a pld if you wanna do the most damage you can without being KO'ed

[Icemage]

Really not much you can do about the shaky aggro control of a ninja at any level (except ninjas using a Kraken Club or things like a Scorpion Harness, but those are relatively high level items, and exceptionally rare).

Still, there are a few things you can do.

- Use Shock/Rasp/Frost. Shock first. It wil help the ninja land offensive status ninjutsu such as Kurayami: Ni. Ninjas rely on their AGI and Evasion to make Utsusemi last longer, and to reduce the amount of enmity loss from taking damage, so Rasp next. Finally, if you have time and MP, help distribute the enmity better by using Frost to help the melees deal more damage by hitting more often. This means less damage you'll have to make up for as BLM (and less enmity for you overall).

- If the RDM isn't doing so, back up the Ninja with Blind if their Kurayami (ninjutsu blind, which is more effective than the spell version) is resisted.

- Use Blink. This is a self-preservation move. Keep Blink up if you think you're getting attacked too often for comfort. This will buy the party time to react to the switch in aggro.

- Use Stun. Be careful with Stun, as it generates a large enmity spike for you, but when a monster is already headed your way, or the Ninja gets interrupted while casting Utsusemi, Stun can buy some time to get things under control.


Icemage

[Sadeira]

here are my recommendations in addition to what others have posted here already.

use low level elemental nukes. it's a given that you shouldn't go in to battle (with a nin tank) and use level 3 and 4 spells right off the bat. that would make YOU the main tank of the party. instead, use level 1 and 2 spells. what i like to do is this:

level 1 spell > level 2 spell of the same family > level 1 spell used in the beginning

the level 1 spell will recycle (barring slow) by the time you finish casting the level 2 spell so you can use it again.

illustrated with blizzard:

blizzard > blizzard 2 > blizzard

and then i wait for blizzard 1 to recycle before doing this again. i like this pattern because it does enough damage to be effective, doesn't pull hate like casting a blizzard 3 would, and saves mp. i do this regardless of who is my tank (pld or nin).

help cure. especially if your back line is rdm/brd/blm. i know from personal experience that an rdm is under major pressure to do their job (refresh, haste, and dispel) and keep cures going. when a big hit lands on the tank while the rdm is in the middle of casting refresh or haste, they will follow up with cure 4 and they will pull hate, especially since rdms who are optimally equipped will have NO -enmity gear before level 72. and even if you have a whm, help with cures so that the whm doesn't pull hate as well.

ninjas have shaky aggro control at the beginning of any battle but towards the end of the battle (once the mob is at half hp or below), the hate will be solidly on the ninja. with a good tank, it would be difficult to take the hate off of a ninja near the end of a battle you could probably let loose 1 or 2 level 3 and 4 spells without pulling hate.

[Merlyne`]

Hmm... your THF has been doing SA TA viper on the NIN if renkei at start, right? I don't remember how hate was like around 48, but you shouldn't be pulling hate off the NIN with an SA TA viper at the start of a renkei, imo.

If it keeps happening, though, Icemage has the right idea to keep blink up (and stoneskin once you get it). Generally, NIN + THF hold less hate than a good PLD, but make up for it with their melee dmg + less need to be cured due to blinks and high evasion. You will most likely have to nuke less with a NIN tank, but there are other PT benefits for having one.

A good rule of thumb to help better gauge hate I use for any tank is to pay attention mainly to their provokes; with NIN, this is more so. At 75, I can squeeze in a ~600dmg thunder III in the first 15 seconds and a ~500-550dmg blizzard III on second half. This is after second voke, of course (first voke I use debuffs).

IMO, stun isn't a great idea to use if it's coming after you with still a lot of HP left. The point is to get hate off of you, not make it harder, unless your life is highly at risk.

NIN RNG BLM + THF or /THF is great if hate is managed appropriately; just need to adapt to different types of PT setup.

[Menech]

Thank you very much for the advice guys. I will mentain them to the party and see what we can work out.

Alot of good idea here and certainly gave me alot to think about ^^

[Slowcrow]

I've been in a static with a NIN/WAR since level 41 or thereabouts I think it was, and quite honestly I think it has made me a better BLM because of it. You quickly learn about aggro control with a tank like that. A thief or a /thf with SA/TA really really helps lock aggro, but you can pull aggro off by not being careful. Timing is everything.

I typically time my spells to land right after a provoke or right before it (depending on spell). Bursting big on the SC is dependent on who is doing the chain and if a SA/TA is involved with it. If its a NIN -> RNG SC for example, I will use a -III or -IV spell to burst, if it has SA/TA and its getting towards chain 4 or 5+ I'll use a -ga III spell. I typically end a chain 5 with ~300-400 MP usually, sometimes more, sometimes less (monster dependent).

Last night I was in a PT with PLD instead of the NIN who was taking the night off as she had gotten in really late the night before from a trip. It was a very different experience for me, I could nuke a bit more, but my self imposed limits kept me in line. PT was 2 x MNK, PLD, BRD, WHM and me..against bones in K.Ranperres Tomb. They were killing so fast, that I had to find creative uses for my MP or I would end up being almost full MP at the end of chain 5.

Test your limits, find out what they are early on and work within those parameters, tweak and adjust to close in on a working strategy and all is right in the world ^^

-Slowcrow-

[Nodoka]

I dont like pting with nin tanks, but if I have to I do what Sadeira said. Whms and rdm love nin tanks, but I dont really like them. >.<

[SephirothYuyX]

Either you all have bad NIN tanks or cant control your nukes o.0

Ive been in static PTs with my blm and whm, never had any probs with hate issues.

[zorca]

If you guys are doing sc at start, and the thf is tricking onto the nin, there's no way a bliz2 MB will draw the aggro. Fuidama + VB should do around 450 + distorion dmg, and bliz2 MB should be around 350 or so (numbers may be a bit off since it's been awhile). When i was leveling with a nin and thf, I never had that problem. The only times I did draw hate was the thf failing to trick the nin

Even at high lvs, after the thf doing fuidama+sc on the nin, a firaga3 MB normally won't draw hate from the monster, espeically when the nin provokes after the MB. We're talkin about over 1k MB dmg here

[riceburner4540]

i recently partied with a nin tank (first good one since forever). we also had a ranger in the party...he was doing some insane damage. slugshot out-damaged my thunder III mbs. anyway...i basically casted burn, shock, and choke, then drain. usually, this would give the ninja ample time to build up hate. then i'd let loose with the nukes (blizzard and thunder IIs on processionaires). i would do a III nuke right before or after a voke or for MBs only since hate from provokes diminish over time. i realized this when i was skilling up. nin/war (72) and me (66). i was leveling club with nin sub for dual weild on robbers in boyahda. he tanked and leveled h2h (which was very, very low). even though he voked every 30 seconds, i would still pull aggro just from meleeing with my clubs, usually right before the next voke.

[Ungerpurr]

Yeah, was gonna say, unless your thf royally sucks, blizz2 shouldn't be pulling aggro off a SA/TA/VB + Provoke at the start of the fight. Hell, even with a war/nin tank, I've seen them hold hate through a beginning SC of Howling Fists -> Dancing Edge + Flood MB (BLM stood out front, started casting flood the second the mob was in casting range, as it got pulled past him to the tank). And this was with a crappy thf...we're talking 500-600 damage DE.