Verified BLM Spell Damage Formula!

[Tetsura]

I just want to comment that monster INT does affect spell damage from what I've observed during my time playing.

For example, when i cast Burn on an enemy before casting spells, not only do I seem to get less resists on my spells, but also my spell damage is increased from anywhere to 10-20 points (I would imagine even more on the higher tier spells if it followed the same correlation).

Just an observation, take it any way you like.

[AtraposBLM]

Originally posted by Tetsura
I just want to comment that monster INT does affect spell damage from what I've observed during my time playing.

For example, when i cast Burn on an enemy before casting spells, not only do I seem to get less resists on my spells, but also my spell damage is increased from anywhere to 10-20 points (I would imagine even more on the higher tier spells if it followed the same correlation).

Just an observation, take it any way you like.

This is explained by the factor called IDF in the original post. Burn lowers the enemies INT, which changes the IDF as follows:
If the original IDF =
Caster INT - Enemy INT
Then the new IDF =
Caster INT - (Enemy INT -10)
Therefore, the difference is greater. Later, the IDF determines damage in the equation:
ESD = [ (IDF * SDF) + SDC ] * MAB

So, increasing IDF will subsequently increase the elemental spell damage.


Now that we have an equation for spell DAMAGE, we need to figure out the equation for spell RESISTS. That would be much, much, more difficult. What we really need is that program that Apple Pie uses that logs success rates of spells, along with damages and such. It's in japanese though...; ;

[BloodRedPoet]

What do you mean by ranting?

Like.... complaining ranting(dont remeber)....

or

WHITE PANTS

KILL THE FISH

I love you

...
Claping motion, for about 5 mins straight
/Wave-ing to eveyrbody coming near Port's AH
ect ect

Cause I remember the second type many times.

Anyway... I never said teir 1 was doing better than teir 2... that is an "I" not a 1... like "I walked to the park today"

[Patchinko]

Re: Verified BLM Spell Damage Formula!

Do these calculations only work for BLM? I just tested them and got some unexpected results.

I used Burn on Wild Rabbit just outside San d'Oria on Earthsday.

58RDM/29BLM, bINT68

Listed Calculations:
IDF = (Caster INT - Enemy INT)
SDF = SDB * ESB
ESD = [ (IDF * SDF) + SDC ] * MAB

Data Set I: Stone I
1. Nude, INT68 using Stone I: 26 damage
2. INT+ gear on, INT68+19 using Stone I: 52 damage
3. Replaced Morion with Moldavite, INT68+18 using Stone I: 54 damage

Calculations:
1. IDF=68-1=67
SDF=1*1=1
ESD=[(67*1)+5]*1.24*1.1=98.2
2. ESD=[(86*1)+5]*1.24*1.1=124.1
3. ESD=127.7

I calculated what the Wild Rabbit INT would have to be in each of these cases to give me the numbers I got:

1. Wild Rabbit INT=54
2. Wild Rabbit INT=52
3. Wild Rabbit INT=52

Another possible explanation: Wild Rabbit has very high earth resistance.

Data Set I: Blizzard I
1. Nude, INT68 using Blizzard I: 135 damage
2. Fully equipped, INT68+18 wearing Moldavite: 152 damage
3. Fully equipped, INT68+15 wearing Moldavite and Ice Staff: 165 damage

Calculations:
1. ESD=[((68-1)*1)+41]*1.24=133.9
2. ESD=162.5
3. ESD=169.2

Wild Rabbit INT would need to be the following to obtain the numbers I got:

1. Wild Rabbit INT=0
2. Wild Rabbit INT=8
3. Wild Rabbit INT=1


There are a few possibilities to explain this that I thought of.

One is that I misunderstood the first post's explanation of how to calculate the damage. That being the case, could someone recalculate the data I got to show me how to do it properly?

Another is that RDM damage can't be calculated this way, perhaps because Elemental skill is significantly lower than equivalent level BLM skill. I'd doubt this is a factor considering that RDM58 is far higher level than Wild Rabbit.

Still, it's possible RDM elemental spell damage has a different equation working for it that causes lower damage.

The other is that we should all be very wary of Wild Rabbit, because clearly he doesn't follow the rules! >:3

[Prefect]

You forgot about the caps on IDF. At most, IDF = (UTV + PTV)/2. For Earth 1, PTV is 21 and UTV is 53. So IDF maxes out at 37.

[Patchinko]

If that's the case, then in the first experiment, here's what the numbers should have been:

1) ESD=[(((21+53)/2)*1)+5]*1.24*1.1=50.5
2) ESD=57.3
3) ESD=59.6

As you can see, they still don't match up, so that's not the problem (I tried substituting those in when trying to figure out what the problem was before, but noticed as I just explained that they don't work out either).

[ogre5278]

I haven't done any testing, but part of that just seems inefficient from a programming perspective.

The way in whih IDF is found would require multiple lines of code, as oppsed to using an eponential formual, like say (some factor)^(caster's INT - enemy's INT). That way, you don't have to deal with checking if the difference is negative. It'd still be possible to keep the formula difficult to figure out, but still simple to program. Simple is always better. (Not saying what you have there IS wrong, but it could be off. Curve fitting isn't always easy when there's so many variables)

To tell you the truth from a programming standpoint, anything exponential(sp?) is grossing ineffiecient in the cpu time as the difference in int grows larger. say the difference in int is over 25, 2^25 eats up a TON of cpu time, (remember all math is eventualy broken down into addition in computers!), while the thread authors equation would be a consistant ammount cpu cycles no matter what the difference in int is. consitancy is much more desired in real time applications^^

[Macht]

Originally posted by ogre5278
To tell you the truth from a programming standpoint, anything exponential(sp?) is grossing ineffiecient in the cpu time as the difference in int grows larger. say the difference in int is over 25, 2^25 eats up a TON of cpu time, (remember all math is eventualy broken down into addition in computers!), while the thread authors equation would be a consistant ammount cpu cycles no matter what the difference in int is. consitancy is much more desired in real time applications^^

Actually if you are using a 32-bit intergers then the max you can go is 2^32. With Single Percision Floating points you can go to 2^127 with general ease.

[ogre5278]

yes you can do it easily, but not effeciently.....remember that when you get down to it, a cpu can only add and do basic logic arguements. Furthermore multiplication is a repeated addition where exponents are repeated multiplications. I think you can see where Im going from here. I dont remember the exact complexities but I believe they are about n+1 general operations for multiplication where n is the multiplier and litterally n to the M operations for exponents(as you can see its a LOT of operations)...Im kind of ranting at this point and confusing myself, Im so terrible at explaining things :sweat:

[nivlakian]

My first time posting here...

To Patchinko,
I think the problem with the calculation you did is the 1.1 multiplier at the end. I assume you're adding that for the day of the week bonus but that bonus in my experience is not applied always (just randomly).

I think in your test, you exceed the UTV and have to use the other formula suggested like you did but without the 1.1 on the end.

ESD=[(((21+53)/2)*1)+5]*1.24 = (37+5)*1.24 = 52.08

Then with your moldavite:
(37+5)*1.29 = 54.14

I believe these numbers match what you got in your test.

[Patchinko]

Strangely, that works for the second two tests I did, but the first one got me 26dmg, which is half what's expected even while not taking the day into account. I tried it a few times and ended up with the same number, so I'm kind of mistified.

[Nobusan]

Perhaps you didn't notice the weather? day? or the monster's INT could be higher than you thought?

I am glad it worked on your later trials

[Prefect]

Originally posted by Patchinko
Strangely, that works for the second two tests I did, but the first one got me 26dmg, which is half what's expected even while not taking the day into account. I tried it a few times and ended up with the same number, so I'm kind of mistified.

Half damage is a resist. I think that with anything that has a chance for failure, you can never get 100% success. And with Rabbits being strong against Stone, that helps out the meager resist chance they had against you.

[Patchinko]

Resist isn't always half damage, is it? I always thought it was a random percentage. I cast it two times and both gave 26 dmg. It's the best explanation for what happened, I suppose.

Nobusan, as I said, I did it on Earthsday (hence Stone should have been boosted), and there is no weather in East Ronfaure. Wild Rabbits are very low level, so even if they had higher INT than I expected, chances are it's not coming even close to my INT.

That said, the calculations nivlakian laid out works, but doesn't take the Earthsday boost into account. I guess that means that, like he said, it doesn't always have an effect.

I guess my final thought on it is that although a calculation can be done, there are still randomalities involved, so you will not always end up with the exact number you calculated.

[Nobusan]

There's 3 types of resists:

Full resist - You see this alot if you try to nuke HNM with non-weakness elements. The damage will be extremely low.

Half resist - Half of what you normally do.

Quarter resist - Quarter of what you normally do.