Summoner Subjob

[Ungerpurr]

Ok, I can see it for Galka or Elvaan, who have a severe MP and int shortage when it comes to blm. But tarus? Please god, why? Does the extra 35 MP a taru gets from /smn rather than /whm at level 48 help much (from 599 MP to 634)? Or the three more int (granted, 3 int is nice, but still...). For this, you give up Blink, Paralyze, Slow, Regen, and the (very) occasional heal?

Just had to ask...grouped with a BLM/SMN tonight...first of all, while not BAD, per se, he wasn't the greatest blm (fighting beetles in garlaige, imho the only nukes you should be casting outside of MB are blizzard 2, blizzaga, and blizzard....he used every spell he had). He couldn't debuff properly because of his subjob, which left our whm spending precious time better used for resting MP at the start of every battle casting debuffs (paralyze, slow, etc.). Yeah, I know, a rdm is better for this, but we didn't have one.

I understand that you become a blm because you want to cast magic that makes stuff dead, but I hope I'm not the only one that feels that /smn under a blm main is an abomination. The only possible reasonable use that I can see for /smn for a blm is when sub is 25+, and even then it's very sketchy.

[Coinspinner]

With no RDM the WHM should be the one to cast those anyway.

[AtraposBLM]

that's one of the situations where /whm is better than /smn. Had you a rdm, his /smn would have been fine.

Pre lv50 though, I don't really see what /smn adds. After 50, you get blinkga (underestimated...AND overestimated lol) and auto-regen. I'm starting to consider subbing smn myself for the parties with rdm and whm. Who knows...

[Ungerpurr]

Changed the subject to more reflect what I was ranting about. I still don't think /smn is that great of a sub post-50 for blm, but at least it serves a purpose. As far as whm/* vs. blm/whm doing enfeebles, I've yet to see anything but anecdotal evidence that MND helps enfeebles land. Hell, one guide on the summoner page for smn/rdm recommends you pump up your INT to land enfeebles. Personally, I think your enfeebling magic skill is all that matters, same as elemental for landing nukes.

[Nodoka]

MND is for enfeebles.. One time I was pting in Quicksand with a Summoner. For fun, I asked him to use Glittering Ruby until I got the +12 INT. Being unlucky as I am, I constantly got +MND instead. Now with the +12 MND I noticed ALL my enfeebles were landing. Before, I had around a 1/4 or 1/3 landing rate. But now everything I did was sticking. I was like o.O;;;;; and from then on, I was convinced MND is for enfeebles. ^^

[Ungerpurr]

Like I said, anecdotal. ^^

[Altruist]

MND has a direct impact on white magic enfeebles, and int has a direct impact on black magic enfeebles. Please do a search or look through the rdm pages to see a good chunk of evidence. It is most evident that I can't even land a paralyze w/o switching to mnd gear, and at the same point gravity doesn't do too hot w/o +int gear.

[FFXITsukasa]

I disagree. I think SMN as a sub is a good thing. A White Mages job is to cure and recover. A black Mages job is to nuke and enfeeble so whatever sub job they take on is acceptable. Just people that want to level like mad get all pissy because a Black mage doesn't have White mage as a sub job so they can help cure and recover. Their are some people out there that are more laid back and don't really give a damn about constantly leveling so Summoner isn't a problem for them. I personally am going to be a Summoner and support the idea very much. I respect Summoners because some people won't group with them just because they aren't the common WHM/BLM or BLM/WHM combo everyone seems to seek and love.

[Rones]

Was in kazham last night lvling my blm sub as blm/whm and was grouped with a whm/blm, and taru smn/blm (refused to switch to /whm). Well, we lost our tank 4 times because me and the whm barely ran out of mp at the end of the fight while the smn/blm still had 200+ mp, but she couldn't cure. Had she been blm/smn, it would have been the same situation. Blm without cures is gimped. Times will arrise when those cures are very needed, despite it being the whm's role, they do run out of mp at times and that is beyond their control usually. The only time I see it alright to go blm/smn is if these are meet:
1. Whm in party
2. Rdm in party
3. You are 50+ blm actually getting refresh from 25 smn sub
4. You have partied with the whm and rdm before and know they can handle it.
5. You realize that at 50+ when you get refresh you will rarely use all your mp as a blm anyway.

Then you can maybe get away with blm/smn.

[Oompa]

From what I'm hearing here, this is the impression I'm getting from the opinions you guys posted:

BLM/WHM = glorified healer due to poor WHMs
BLM/RDM = glorified and horribly gimped debuffer
BLM/SMN = Useless.

I've played BLM/SMN for a while now with not a single complaint. The only person that questioned it was a whm that just SUCKED. He kept spamming cure V over and over again getting aggro from the PLD. He wanted me to cure too so he wouldn't take so much hate. He's cast Cure V for 140HP when obvioulsy Cure II or Cure III would have worked just fine. Needless to say, he was booted soon after. Other than that, 99% of the people I party with know my reputation. They know I'm one of the best BLMs on our server(our level) for dealing massive damage and controlling hate well. Even with WHM subbed I NEVER (NEVER!) use a single cure in a fight unless we're playing a somewhat regular party I have of BRD, RDM, BLM, PLD, DRK, and one other (not WHM). The ONLY reason I would ever see for subbing WHM as a BLM is for sneak and invisible to get to the harder to reach areas. I never cure, I never debuff anything other than my elemental debuffs, and the RDM, BRD, or WHM (if we have one) will cast sneak and invisible on me.

I get so many requests to change to BLM/SMN because people know what I can do with the job. It's not the job that sucks guys, it's the players playing it. Forget the conventional ideas on what a BLM "should" do and learn to play the job to it's fullest potential.

You don't reqire a MNK to sub WAR just to tank "in case" the PLD can't control hate. You just expect the PLD to control hate, period. It's silly to choose your subjob based on the inabilities of others.

[Oompa]

One thing to note:

Post 60, the most important thing to a party is the ability to chain kills for greater XP. With SMN sub you relieve some stress off the RDM to refresh you, and have a greater MP pool to chain with. I get MP back so fast it's disgusting. With 919MP at level 61 I can chain longer than anyone else in the party. Really, I NEVER have to stop......

[Ruinwraith]

IMO, smn sub is fine if

1. you're 50+
2. there are 2 other people with large mana pool in the party that can heal. smn/whm, rdm/x, or whm/x

Having garuda is a big plus as well. No real excuse not to now with the new lvl 20 avatar fights. Goto the smn board for tips/videos, they aren't that hard.

Point is you shouldn't just have one sub job and then defend it to the death about how its the best ever, but have a selection to choose from to best fit your party's needs.

I've been in many groups with a whm and rdm where I didn't have to heal for hours. That doesn't mean ALL groups you're not going to have to heal. Honestly what I'd miss most about /smn is not having sneak or invis.

"5. You realize that at 50+ when you get refresh you will rarely use all your mp as a blm anyway."

Btw I disagree with this, you can ALWAYS use more mp from auto-refresh.

[Oompa]

Originally posted by Ruinwraith
IMO, smn sub is fine if

1. you're 50+
2. there are 2 other people with large mana pool in the party that can heal. smn/whm, rdm/x, or whm/x

Having garuda is a big plus as well. No real excuse not to now with the new lvl 20 avatar fights. Goto the smn board for tips/videos, they aren't that hard.

Point is you shouldn't just have one sub job and then defend it to the death about how its the best ever, but have a selection to choose from to best fit your party's needs.

I've been in many groups with a whm and rdm where I didn't have to heal for hours. That doesn't mean ALL groups you're not going to have to heal. Honestly what I'd miss most about /smn is not having sneak or invis.

My point exactly, thank you.

[Altruist]

darkstaff > blm/smn, having someone else to poisona paralyna etc is very nice. Your rdm/blm needs reduced mana consumption more than you need to have a squirrel-dog.

If you consider a darkstaff too expensive, think that you can raise the gil for it in the same amount of time that it takes for you to raise summoner to an appropriate level.

If your below 50 don't even think about subbing anything but /whm or /rdm, you need all the curing power you can get unless you have a ninja. But if you have a ninja and you don't have a bard/whm, guess who gets to do status spells, you.

[Ruinwraith]

and blm/smn with a dark staff > just a dark staff. And yes, I have one already.

Here's what I've been fighting for the last 17 or 18 levels:

Goblins
Beetles
Crabs
Pugils
Raptors

Tell me, as I can't get viruna til 68/34, what status cures have I had to use in the past month or two?

Like I said, your subjob should depend on what's in your party and what you are fighting. It's not a permanent choice.